2016 Superhero Films Ranked From Worst To Best

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2016 was an extremely interesting year for Superhero films. It was the first year of the beginning of the DCEU, Marvel had their annual two films, and Fox released two films from their X-Men Universe. There was a lot of interesting releases and a lot of controversy, but this year has marked a new age in the recent trend of shared universes.  It’s been a big year not only for us as a site, but also for all of you who get to see all of our favorite heroes come to the big screen in big and exciting ways. With the year winding down it’s a good time to look back at the films that came out this year and see which one stands at the top. While I enjoyed almost all of them there were films I found to be better than others. So without further ado onto the list!

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Christian Michael Stoic

Christian Michael Stoic

Christian Michael Stoic is a writer, filmmaker, and comic lover from Los Angeles, CA. Heroic Hollywood is his introduction into the world of Journalism which...

  • Lorenzo Ladogana

    100% agree with the list, altough i did not see Apocalypse.

    • Joseph Chaisson

      Watch everything wrong with and you won’t have to waste money on it

  • Anti homophobe

    BvS is better than CW and SS

    • Thanostic

      No on both; 100x no as related to CW.

    • Keiran S-C

      totally agree CW was just a terrible film

    • sam7447

      BvS is my fav superhero movie this decade and I ain’t ashamed to admit it

      A gem!

    • Chris27

      Not even close.

    • Fenix

      Lol good one!

    • frelling_cute

      Except for that incoherent script.

  • Joseph Chaisson

    Great list

  • MetalMonkeyInc

    CW
    BvS
    Dr. Strange
    Deadpool
    X-Men: Apocalypse
    TMNT 2
    SS

    • Maxi Iroh

      Deadpool > Dr.Strange

  • Maxi Iroh

    HAHAhaha.

  • Thanostic

    1) Civil War
    2) Deadpool
    3) Dr Strangge
    4) X-Men Apocalypse (go watch it again – it’s better on repeated viewings)
    5) Suicide Squad
    6) BvS
    7) TMNT2 (didn’t see it, but I’ll just assume)

    • Keiran S-C

      BVS>>CW

      • Fenix

        BvS is lukewarm garbage.

        • Keiran S-C

          civil war is made up of green lantern clones and a lame villain who think retribution for his dead family means causing the team to have a bit of a spat and recruit more members xD

        • Nightwing

          It might be garbage for you if you have an underdeveloped brain.

      • Napi

        LOL, his name is THANOStic… what did you expect?

        • Keiran S-C

          i known yeah xD i just want to see how someone can justify CW being better than BVS in any way

        • Keiran S-C

          i known yeah xD i just want to see how someone can justify CW being better than BVS in any way

          • Axxell

            It’s already been done, ad nauseaum.

          • Thanostic

            True, but let’s cover the basics again…CW has a more developed plot, a more plausible reason for the conflict, and a more realistic fight, conceptually. The entire notion of Batman trying to fight Superman is so absurd as to defy logic. Oh, wait – Batman has a parlor trick/plot device up his sleeve…kryptonite! This illustrates the primary problem with Superman (who I personally like) – he’s so powerful, and so pure, that you have to basically go to the same well over and over again in order to present him a challenge. In Marvel, or at least the MCU, none of the characters are so powerful as to be unbeatable without a macguffin of some sort, and none of them are so pure as to be boring. They’re real people, with real flaws and weaknesses, and that makes them more interesting. That gives emotion and depth to the conflict of CW, something that seems either lacking or manufactured in BvS. Both sides think they’re doing the right thing, for the right reasons. In BvS, the conflict is driven by Batman’s nightmare scenario. “What if this super-being suddenly turns against us? Even though he’s a hero on a scale we’ve never seen before, I should kill him just in case.”

            Look, I’m on record multiple times on this site as saying I liked MoS a lot, and that I really wanted to like BvS. But the pacing was weird, the plot was lacking, and again, the premise behind the title fight was absurd. And don’t even get me started on “WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?????”

            CW also did a better job of fleshing out its ancillary characters than BvS did. And, oh yeah – Spidey and Black Panther!!!

  • Maxi Iroh

    CW
    Deadpool
    BvS UE
    Dr. Strange
    SS
    X-Men: Apocalypse
    TMNT 2

  • Keiran S-C

    Civil War second XD lol probably last but i havnt seen TMNT or DS.

    BVS easily first, deadpool, SS, Xmen

    havnt seen a film with such terrible performances and such an incoherent narrative as CW since the first avengers film

    • Mateusz Sobczak

      Yes, try harder DC idiot…
      CW 8.0 IMDB, Metacritic 75% and 90% (7.6)
      BvS 6.8 IMDB(including 25,000 people rated 10/10 before the premiere …), Metacritic 44% and 27% RT (4.9)

      • Keiran S-C

        they also rated ultron high when it was released and we all had to sit through that mess. They killed a speedster with bullets ffs lmao sorry if i cant take these “critics” seriously clearly no superhero fan can enjoy films with such shoddy writing.

        CWs narrative just sucked and was so incoherent and constantly contradicting itself and then that massive cringy play fight urgh.. just killed anything vaguely mature the film had going for it on the spot.

        I dont see how causing the avengers to have a bit of a spat and recruit more members is adequate retribution for leaving zemos family to die in the middle of a battlefield stark created, that is just a moronic plot with a cop out of an ending bigger than insta killing an alien invasion with 1 lucky nuke(but never telling you about a hive mind).
        Or spiderman being the most forced in character in superhero movie history and having him agree to fight earths most beloved savior in the background while stark hits on the hot new milf after only just informing us he broke up with potts in a single emotionless sentence during the previous scene… and why did spiderman fight earths greatest savior in the first place? money? he decided to team up with stark who is in complete disgrace after nearly ending humanity with Ultron hes luckily to not be in jail.

        Why the f*** would the government want him as the face of the new team, to build up all that support from the hundreds or thousands of family’s of the ppl he got killed? i mean hes already shown not to care about the woman who blamed him for the death of her son since he was eager to run out and recruit the first underage wannabe hero he could get his hands on to fight histories greatest assassin O_o

        oh yeah lets not forget Mr. Stank pfff worse than going to get sushi.

        It was just a pitiful film, Black Pantha was the only positive to come out of it.

        • Axxell

          I dont see how causing the avengers to have a bit of a spat and recruit more members is adequate retribution for leaving zemos family to die in the middle of a battlefield stark created

          It’s not…Zemo’s ultimate goal was to have them kill each other since he had no superpowers or means to do it himself…which was a way better plan than trying to get Batman to kill Superman while doing everything to thwart your own schizophrenic scheme…

          Or spiderman being the most forced in character in superhero movie history

          I can prove to you that Spiderman was more influential to the plot of CW than Flash’s forced and absolutely nonsense “vision” that not only made NO SENSE (since last time I checked, Batman is not clairvoyant), but had ABSOLUTELY….NOTHING to do with the plot of BvS…and let’s not even start with the pointless fanservice videos of the JL…

          why did spiderman fight earths greatest savior in the first place?

          You mean “earths (sic) greatest savior” who decided he’d rather work without supervision as a vigilante? Yeah, why would a teenage whose idol just walked through the door and offered to work together NOT decline an offer to rein in a fugitive…

          Why the f*** would the government want him as the face of the new team, to build up all that support from the hundreds or thousands of family’s of the ppl he got killed?

          When in the movie does it say they picked him?

          It doesn’t. Stark volunteered. The government agreed to let them continue to operate as long as they report to them; the internal structure of the Avengers was never an issue to them as long as they could control them, and Ironman was the lead Avenger who stepped up.

          i mean hes already shown not to care about the woman who blamed him for the death of her son since he was eager to run out and recruit the first underage wannabe hero he could get his hands on to fight histories greatest assassin O_o

          At least it’s consistent with Stark’s reckless character, which is more than can be said about Batman going out to kill Superman without knowing anything about him, save (conveniently enough) for his biggest weakness…just because he MIGHT turn evil…Thankfully Superman’s grandparents saved the day by naming his mom “Martha”…

          • Keiran S-C

            zemo never planned to have them kill each other, he wanted stark kill bucky but he never planned for anyone else to die especially not for the team to kill one another and the childish play fight in which it was shown undermined any serious intentions zemos plot was struggling to cause.
            The final fight would have been pretty decent and serious, even with Evans smug face in ever shot, but since it was directly following the massive immature fight scene it just had nothing left to work with then sandwiching the scene with cap leaving him a phone so they can remain mates while stan lee delivers a parcel for mr stank was just the nail in the coffin.

            Batmans motivations to kill superman were solid he embodied the fear millions or even billions of ppl are feeling to the recent appearance of a god like being in their society and who destroyed half a city to kill one of his own species. He is still on the fence at the beginning of the film and wants the kryptonite, which LEX discovered(it sounded like you missed that part of the film) as a fail safe back up plan to stop superman if and when he goes rouge.
            LEX then convinces him and most of metropolis that superman has no moral compass and is willing to play judge, jury and executioner by killing the terrorists in the dessert and framing him.

            I dont see how this is a schizophrenic scheme in the slightest everyone is already afraid of this all powerful god, naturally, which no one has control over and lex manipulates that fear so that ppl see the worst in a good man. From Batmans perspective Superman has shown his true colours at last and started killing those he deems not worth living but unlike him nothing is stopping superman from flying down and ripping off the roof of the white house on a whim, as Amanda Waller points out in SS.

            ————————-

            Flashs brief cameo wasnt the same as spidermans lazily forced in cameo and was never meant to be as big or apart of BVSs plot O_o this is text book DC using the flash to time travel and warn heroes of future events but not being able to control his timing, presence or running through events in a jumbled order. Its called foreshadowing and is being used to hint at the greater over arcing narrative of the DCEU.
            Just go read or even listen to infinite crisis and this is dead on DC.
            The entire reason so many dream scenes were used was to show the audience how batman doesnt just go wtf was that… and on a subconscious level adds to this desire to see superman dead because its not only images hes getting from his future self he is experiencing everything, and embodying a batman who HATES everything! about Superman then having supes put his fist through your chest might leave a bad taste in your mouth dont you think :/

            Batmans visions are a symptom of the flashs time traveling since he is altering history around batman as he makes contact, its nothing to do with him being clairvoyant ffs. Its feels like you didnt watch the film but read a bunch of reviews.

            ————————

            I know caps motivations were moronic and weak from the get go but Spiderman might have a few doubts since Starks latest blunder nearly ended humanity :/ thats pretty BIG. i know id question why to follow stark after such a horrific mistake that lead to god knows how many innocents dead. Maybe he doesnt have the best judgement ? maybe “Captain America” the man who embodies the american ideal and didnt nearly end humanity has a good reason to drop everything he is renowned for and go against the government and stark

            Stark recruiting a kid to do his dirty work was contradicting enough to his own storyline since the film opened with him being blamed for the death of a womans son you think he would be wary of bringing others into his fight and putting them at risk but nope, the first kid with superpowers he could get his hands on he threw straight at the Winter Soldier.

            BVS on the other hand opens the film with Batmans origin, showing Bruces parents gunned down in front of him with his father dying in the gutter saying his mothers name(more foreshadowing btw). Just imagine the effect that would have on you even hearing your parents names in general conversion would make you wince and bring up horrible emotions and memories.
            Now imagine you are Batman 20 years into a career built on that moment and have seen all sorts and been pushed to the edge of death countless times even had a teenage side kick mercilessly murdered, then you feel the need to take on a god something no man has ever done before and who you have no hope of defeating. That fight is going to be the most adrenaline fueled moment in Bruces life(and this is Batman remember) then as you beat him! and are about to kill this god he asks you to save “martha” that your letting him kill “Martha”

            Your essentially telling me you wouldn’t even hessitate or be shocked, angered, full of emotions and memories of your parents death or your fathers saying your mothers name as he dies. That this gods last words not being a plea for mercy or to spare his life like countless other villains you have fought but instead to save someone else someone with the same name your mother(humanizing both characters in the process), wouldnt strike you as unusual.
            No you would stop and reevaluate the situation instantly and come to the conclusion Lex is behind all of it as Superman tried to convince him of before the fight started its not like batman is at a disadvantage by pausing for a few seconds to make sure he isnt about to kill a good man for no reason…. he even has another kryptonite capsule left lol

            Your simply reducing a very powerful scene which was foreshadowed beautifully into one word because you and alot of ppl are too dense to read into what makes these characters who they are or simply basic storytelling heck most ppl i have pointed this out to didnt even remember Thomas Wayne saying Marthas name….

            ———————–

            Yeaa stark volunteered and the government would have told him where to go lol they simply dont want a man responsible for mass murder, even if by mistake, as the face of their new shiny team of superheros that represent their country. It doesnt send a good message as the opeing scenes of the film showed perfectly he is hated by many and should by all reason be in disgrace after ultron, he should be crucifed by the media and so on.
            What they desperately wanted was for Cap to lead the team since his signature would convince many other super beings to come forward and sign up alongside him, they would be willing to do alot to get caps signature.

            Please tell me why Cap simply didnt bargain with them to take the kill order off of Bucky(the tortured brainwashed american soldier) in exchange for his signature and leading the team to bring Bucky back alive. Cap would be willing to do this since having the whole team working in unison would increase his chances of saving Bucky tenfold.

            I have already explained Batmans motives, he isnt killing superman because he might turn evil he is taking out a man whos very existences paints a target on earth as Zod proved, and as we know Darksied has seen. He recently played executioner in the dessert and it wont be long until he uses that judgement on others even Americans even figure heads such as the president.
            Lets say the president of america invades a country under the banner of peaces and to do good but superman sees it as a greedy bid for resources such as oil or some crap like that whats stopping him from deciding the president is responsible for thousands of deaths and deserves to be killed?

          • Axxell

            zemo never planned to have them kill each other, he wanted stark kill bucky but he never planned for anyone else to die especially not for the team to kill one another and the childish play fight in which it was shown undermined any serious intentions zemos plot was struggling to cause.

            Of course it’s undermined…if you try to interject your own nonsensical intentions into the plot, it’s never gonna make sense…Why would Zemo have bailed Bucky out if all he wanted was to kill HIM specifically? In all likelyhood the government was going to execute him, which would’ve achieved the same purpose, if that’s what it was. But then as you said yourself, this explanation doesn’t make sense in the context of the whole film.

            Compare that with Luthor’s plan…He wants to kill Superman, but for some reason he’d rather Batman do it, despite being the one having the weapon, resources and the disposition to do it. Not entirely sure how that’s justified, but we’ll leave that aside. So he needs Batman, but instead of just, maybe simply dropping the kryptonite directly on his lap…he decides he wants to lead Batman on a chase through the streets in order to get it, which is basically Luthor working against his own plans…mind you, this is following years of him goading Batman into doing something he already wanted to do, instead of just saving time by walking over to Wayne Enterprises and saying “Hey, this Superman guy’s an @sshole; here’s something to put him in place”…but no, that would make too much sense.

            But that’s not all! He also thought it was a good idea to give Superman an incentive to fight back against Batman, by kidnapping his mom…effectively making Batman’s job harder. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say Luthor hates Batman more than he hates Supes…Like I said, Luthor does things in this movie that make you question what the he11 he’s trying to achieve and why he’s trying so hard not to.

            Flashs brief cameo wasnt the same as spidermans lazily forced in cameo a

            nd was never meant to be as big or apart of BVSs plot O_o this is text book DC using the flash to time travel and warn heroes of future events but not being able to control his timing, presence or running through events in a jumbled order.

            Spiderman had a reason to be there…Captain America had just taken half the team with him and Stark needed reinforcements, leading to Spiderman being the one to turn the tide against Captain America’s team and their subsequent incarceration. That’s the opposite of “lazily forced”. Nothing like the Flash conveniently appearing in this movie just to deliver an inconsequential quip…THAT’s “lazily forced”. Claiming that he can’t control his power, ergo he just randomly pops up anywhere, is just about the laziest excuse for a cameo in the pantheon of excuses…and saying that Flash now has the power to give people visions of the future (extra convenient fan service explanation!) is just icing on the cake…

            I know caps motivations were moronic and weak from the get go but Spiderman might have a few doubts since Starks latest blunder nearly ended humanity :/ thats pretty BIG.

            It would be…if Peter Parker was aware that it was Stark’s blunder; from his perspective, he doesn’t know where Ultron came from. All the Avengers can be blamed for in the eyes of the public is not doing enough to stop this alien killer robot who came out of nowhere to threaten Earth.

            Stark recruiting a kid to do his dirty work was contradicting enough to his own storyline since the film opened with him being blamed for the death of a womans son you think he would be wary of bringing others into his fight and putting them at risk but nope, the first kid with superpowers he could get his hands on he threw straight at the Winter Soldier.

            “You think he would be wary”? Based on what? This is Ironman, the guy who constantly rides an experimental flying battlesuit since years ago…If you watched MCU movies for the last 8 years, you’d know that by now. And considering how Spiderman handled himself, I’d say Stark’s assesment of his skills were pretty spot on, and he was never in any serious danger, even against the Winter Soldier.

            BVS on the other hand opens the film with Batmans origin, showing Bruces parents gunned down in front of him with his father dying in the gutter saying his mothers name(more foreshadowing btw). Just imagine the effect that would have on you even hearing your parents names in general conversion would make you wince and bring up horrible emotions and memories.

            No…because I’m a grown man, and by age 40 I’ve already heard my mother’s name countless times and learned to deal with it. To say that someone would be affected by hearing the name of a lost one enough to stop you from killing this monster who has the power to wipe out mankind, just because my father might have said it the same way decades ago, is seriously stupid plot device. Trust me, it’s not as smart as you want to believe it is. And that’s why everyone except DC fanboys can accept it as such and make fun of it.

            Yeaa stark volunteered and the government would have told him where to go lol they simply dont want a man responsible for mass murder, even if by mistake, as the face of their new shiny team of superheros that represent their country.

            There you go again…lambasting the film because it doesn’t match your own forced interpretation…

            You say the government doesn’t want Stark as the face of the new team…but that it doesn’t make sense that they DID pick him, therefore the film is flawed. You just can’t see how bad that logic is, can you?

            Sure, there’s a big part of the public that hates Stark, but there’s an equal amount of people who support him. Again, the public doesn’t know he was responsible for Ultron. And sure, the government would’ve “desperately” loved to have everyone (including Cap) sign the accords, but they didn’t, so they had to make do with the next best option.

            Please tell me why Cap simply didnt bargain with them to take the kill order off of Bucky(the tortured brainwashed american soldier) in exchange for his signature and leading the team to bring Bucky back alive. Cap would be willing to do this since having the whole team working in unison would increase his chances of saving Bucky tenfold.

            But then that would mean signing the accords, which, if you hadn’t missed the discussion they had about it in Avengers HQ, you would’ve know it’s something Cap was opposed to. Seriously, watch the movie again.

            I have already explained Batmans motives, he isnt killing superman because he might turn evil he is taking out a man whos very existences paints a target on earth as Zod proved, and as we know Darksied has seen.

            Batman doesn’t know about Darkseid; nowhere is it suggested Batman is doing this to preempt any further extraterrestrial attacks; he’s doing this, as he clearly explained to Alfred when questioned, precisely because Superman might turn evil…your very next sentence supports that:

            He recently played executioner in the dessert and it wont be long until he uses that judgement on others even Americans even figure heads such as the president.

          • Keiran S-C

            This was just a painful comment to read.

            zemo wants stark to kill bucky while cap defends him that is his plan all along to destroy the bond they have and break the glue that holds the avengers together, he wants to ruin their relationship so that they can never trust eachother the same way again. This for some reason is good enough revenge for his family dying :S thats why the pplot to CW sucked beacues their were never any stakes other than wil stark kill bucky and put him out of his misery.

            His whole idea of redemption was to break up the family of superheros with a devastating event but it really wasnt that devastating and wound up with them staying mates anyway. how do you not understand the plot to a film you like so much O_O

            ——–

            You also dont seem to have understood Lexs role in the film. He wants both hero dead and out of his business since batman has been closing in on his operations and superman is the epitome of good he wants to see this stuck up symbol of arrogance gone and no longer standing in his way that has always been Lex Luthors motivations to hating superman since he was introduced in the comics, that and his hair loss. He feel superman has taken away the city he used to run and no one can be as perfect as everyone makes him out to be.

            now to BVS plot, Lex doesnt have the weapons until later, he is manipulating both superheros to slowly see each other as a threat so that one will kill the other or at least arrest the other in supermans case regardless, while all the time doing his best to tarnish supermans symbol(dessert scene) and break his spirit(bombing). He then seeks for import rites from the senator to bring in a foreign alien material he has proof will work against superman and he purposes this under the guise of a deterant in case superman ever goes rogue. and gets refused.
            The krptonite is going to be LEXS ace in the hole, his back up plan, its what he will use to safe guard himself and take out superman if and when he has the chance.

            Batman is never meant to get his hands on it.

            Batman then finds out about the material via the investigation at the ball and that it is being shipped over illegally on the white Persian or what ever it was called and attempts to steal it before it is locked up in Lex tower.
            He fails to nab it but succeeds in tracking the container with the homing device he planted earlier on(batmans backup plan).
            Also on a side note Lex uses the ball as a chance to put Bruce wayne in Clarks line of view since the ultimate addition has lexs ask exclusively for clark to cover the event then later reveals he knows who both superman and batman really are on the roof top, not that important to the plot but adds to the complexity of his plan.

            Batman then gets his hands on the kyptonite and by doing so forces Lexs to find a different contingency plan or in other words Doomsday. This is his hail-Mary move which is reckless and which he only hopes he can control but even though creating such a monster is insane his pride wont let him lose to superman who he has sent to kill the bat and is confident will do so since hes given him such strong motivations (kidnapping his mother).
            Even though batman has the krptonite Lex doubts he is strong enough or has had the time to prepare to kill this alien once supes has been given the instinctive to kill and even if he does then all the better 1 hero down either way.
            If not and superman kills batman he has succeeded in bringing down this arrogant symbol of good he hates so much, killed 1 hero anyway and then it doesnt really matter if he is arrested or not since he has broken superman, obviously he would prefer not to be arrested and kill both since he creates doomsday regardless.

            When superman inevitably proves too good to be corrupted and thwarts lexs plan and saves his mother he falls back to his only remaining option, Doomsday.

            Lexs doesnt want his hand to be seen in any of the actions leading up to the fight or for batman to know he is involved at all otherwise exactly what happened to stop the 2 fighting, were batman realizes Lex is responsible and superman is innocent, will happen before he gets around to killing superman or before the fight even starts.
            This is why he cant simply walk up to wayne tower and give him some krptonite because batman might find that a little suspicious dont you think?……. this has to feel like Bruces decision if he even suspects he is being lead on or manipulated by Lex then the whole plan will come crashing down, this obviously happens anyway when batman succeeds in obtaining the kryptonite but by then theirs no point to inform Bruce that he was behind it all along otherwise batman wont even attempt to fight superman to the death he would attempt to reason with him the same way superman tried.

            This is how you write a complex supervilian plot, back up plans on top of back up plans with a guaranteed contingency plan in case it all goes wrong at the end. Lexs plot was 100% solid everything he did or attempted lead to something in his favor with the heros occasionally doing something unexpected and not following his plan, but through foresight and quick thinking he always had a way to deal with each new circumstance and when the heroes(mainly supes) turns out to really be as good as everyone makes him out to be you release Doomsday on him to win at any cost.

            ——————————-

            Spiderman was thrown into a film as filler when his arrival should have been epic it should have been a huge addition to the franchise especially since they are expecting to launch a standalone series from it with future crossovers. He is one of if not the biggest marvel hero having him simply used to boost starks numbers in a fight he has no reason to feel the need to be apart of is lazy! he should have been a strong addition to the narrative adding in some crucial story point which im guessing he is in the comics from the images ive seen of him revealing his face to the media but in the film stark gets blamed for the death of a womans son then recruits a kid to do his dirty work.
            Spidey then disappears 5 minutes in to the fight leaving no impact on the narrative.

            Flash can never control his time travelling O_o what ? just what? do you know nothing about the character. When has the flash ever shown he can control this ability when he mistakenly creates the world of Flashpoint with Aquaman committing genocide and sinking part of Europe while batman is Thoms Wayne and the Joker is Martha Wayne? were Wonder Woman beheads Mera or during Infinite Crisis where he doesnt even understand he is time travelling and has to piece the timeline together by unwillingly being thrown into different time periods and experiencing the event in a jumbled backwards order a dozen times over only to get so angry and run so fast that he briefly appears for 30 seconds, long enough to save and quickly communicate with a team of heroes.
            Do these sound like the actions of a dude who knows how to t ravel through time and his only method of controle is running? he doesnt even understand what the speedforce is let alone know how to manipulate it, he usually falls through time by mistake.
            Just watch the new TV show were he is running around the city and sees a mirror image of himself running along side him then later literally everyone is killed in an explosion, green arrow, the hawks, atom, felicity ect everyone and he simply tries to out run the explosion and falls back through time untill a day ago by sheer luck.

            BVS keeps true to the comics and shows a flash from the future attempting to warn bruce that superman turns evil with the arrival of darkseid and set up the story arc of the DCEU their is no quip O_o what are you on about? a quip is having your 2 heroes fight while one says “i can gooo all dayyy” …. or beating up a mass murdering god then having your hero comically throw him around while sprouting “Puny God” quips are supposed to be funny(cringy in the MCU case) not deadly serious, mysterious and informative.

            ——————-

            you are telling me stark has 0 character development through the franchise that a woman blaming him for the death of her son had no affect on his judgment, that unleashing ultron and killing thousands had no affect on his personality and he experiences no guilt. For these reasons alone he would not hire a kid and throw him into danger especially the worlds greatest assassin, yes he knows he is pretty freaking strong and can shoot webs thats it he is still inexperienced and most importantly UNDERAGE!! if he simply wawsnt underage then this wouldnt be contradicting to the opening scene. That aside caps team dropped a couple tons worth of metal on his head and hoped he would catch and be able to hold it they were lucky he didnt end up crippled like warmachine being shot by visions death rays.

            ———————————-

            You are questioning the fundamentals of batmans character he never gets over his parents death, never. That is why he spent nearly a decade training and exploring foreign lands to come home and create the Batman, because his parents were murdered in front of him. The latest trinity comic has batman relive his parents death with superman and wonder woman their to comfort him.
            http://www.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Trinity-3-1-600×922.jpg

            Simply to say batman needs to grow out of it is a moronic stand point, his parents deaths created a scar on his physique and is what drives him to be batman and fight criminals every night its not something you grow out of. For some people they resolve to drugs, booze, suicide, therapists batman resolved to beat up criminals, he has the most famous motivations for a character in comic history and to hear an alien god ask you to save your own mothers life when you are about to kill him and not a plea for his own life would make any one stop and reevaluate the situation let alone Batman.
            as i said a man in his position would learn to hide his feelings when hearing their names in general conversation but not during the most adrenaline fueled moment in his life they would come bursting out in confusing and anger as they did , then give way to understanding and reasoning/acceptance<<< incredible character development right there.

            ——————————–

            My reasoning was perfectly sane the government would never want a man responsible for mass murderer as the face of their new superhero team. i really dont understand how anyone can dissagree with me. Yes the film forced him into that position because hes the main character and the biggest profit earner but they completely disregarded any realistic repercussions after Age of Ultron.

            The general public all know stark is responsible for Ultron hence why a member of the public confronts him in the opening scene drawing a great amount of attention to the fact he should feel responsibility and guilt then craps it all away by having him hire a kid, superpowers or not.

            omg read my comment xD yes i know cap is against the accords but his biggest priority right now is saving his best friend at all costs! he has always followed government direction thats what he signed up for in WW2 signing this isnt much different he is simply agreeing to follow common laws when dealing with foreign countries and to follow government instructions as is usual for him.
            I understand he has lost faith in them after the actions of Winter Soldier but if it meant saving the last man on earth which links him to his old life, his best friend no less who has been tortured and brainwashed for decades he would do anything! to guarantee his safety and the best possible way to do that ATM is to have the whole team work together towards bringing him in SAFELY without a kill order on his head.
            The government would much rather have cap lead the team instead of stark and would agree to take the kill order off in exchange for his signature after all its a tortured brainwashed veteran american soldier they put the kill order on in the first place.
            .
            Nothing is stopping Cap from going vigilante later and breaking the contract but Bucky needs him right now to sign the accords and focus on saving him. Not to run off with less than half the team to play vigilante because he refuses to sign the accords out of sheer pride. All he does is lower his chances of succeeding in saving Bucky by doing so.

            I know what happened in the film im saying it was a moronic choice to have happen and a number of decisions were simply made out of bullheadedness and as lame tools to drive the plot forward whether they made sense or not.

            ————–

            As i said in my comment "as we know Darksied has seen" we, WE know, an alien attack has already happened simply because superman is located on earth and that attack nearly ended humanity their is nothing stopping more attacks from happening and batman sees that threat. But as i have pointed out multiple times this is not the only driving motivation for batman or the strongest, the dessert scene shows superman becoming judge jury and executioner something he can play with anyone such as the president if he simply disagrees with his decisions. He could very easily become humanities overlord if they dont agree with him and no one can stop him. who gave him the rite to judge human lives and deem them not worth living?

            I pointed out Darseid to show how batmans and most of societys suspicions and fears of another attack are not unfounded in fact they are real and on the way as the audience knows. This means batman is 100% right to think of superman as bait for more attacks.

            This also shows a realistic way to deal with the repercussions of mass murder when a hero is accidentally responsible, the only difference between supermans story line and starks in this instance is superman had no control over where he was sent as a baby, stark created ultron out of stubbornness and a refusal to listen to his team mates telling him not to medal with alien tech or curiosity for short. Which fit both characters perfectly the after affects of their actions on the other hand were handled perfectly by BVS and terribly by CW.

          • Axxell

            This was just a painful comment to read.

            zemo wants stark to kill bucky while cap defends him that is his plan all along to destroy the bond they have and break the glue that holds the avengers together, he wants to ruin their relationship so that they can never trust eachother the same way again. This for some reason is good enough revenge for his family dying :S thats why the pplot to CW sucked beacues their were never any stakes other than wil stark kill bucky and put him out of his misery.

            What’s really painful is watching you try to pound your fist in the sand about this being Zemo’s plan…when it’s clearly not, as I already demonstrated that the evidence shows…You never address that, instead only parroting the same claim with no reason or logic.

            And then you have the nerve to claim that, because the plan YOU interjected into the movie makes no sense, then CW sucks.

            You also dont seem to have understood Lexs role in the film. He wants both hero dead and out of his business since batman has been closing in on his operations

            The movie never establishes Batman was looking into any other “operations” other than the importation of kryptonite. Luthor doesn’t have any reason to want Batman dead, at least not at this point in the movie. Batman operates and sticks to Gotham City; unless it has something to do with Gotham, Batman doesn’t get involved.

            Lex doesnt have the weapons until later

            From the beginning it is shown Luthor obtained the kryptonite from the Indian Sea; that’s the weapon right there.

            The krptonite is going to be LEXS ace in the hole, his back up plan, its what he will use to safe guard himself and take out superman if and when he has the chance.

            Backup plan to…what? Because the way it looks, kryptonite WAS the plan…the only “backup” he had was Doomsday.

            Batman then gets his hands on the kyptonite

            And Luthor seems perfectly happy about it…

            Saying that Luthor didn’t want Batman to kill Superman doesn’t match up with the fact Luthor was goading Batman from the beginning, manipulating the ex-Wayne employee to try and get Batman to feel responsible for the destruction Superman caused…why was he doing that but to get him to fight and kill Superman, then?

            Never through the movie is it shown he has any hatred toward Batman…his obsession is only with Superman. So it makes sense that he’d want to kill him. Even after the fight is over and it results that nobody died, that’s when he says the line “If man won’t kill God, then the Devil will do it”…this clearly shows he wanted the man (Batman) to kill God (Superman), and failing that, he’s gonna use the Devil (Doomsday) as backup. It doesn’t get clearer than that.

            Lexs doesnt want his hand to be seen in any of the actions leading up to the fight or for batman to know he is involved at all otherwise exactly what happened to stop the 2 fighting, were batman realizes Lex is responsible and superman is innocent, will happen before he gets around to killing superman or before the fight even starts.
            This is why he cant simply walk up to wayne tower and give him some krptonite because batman might find that a little suspicious dont you think?

            Why would Wayne be suspicious about someone trying to save the world from this alien menace that is Superman? If Batman really thought Superman was this ticking time bomb that HAD to be destroyed AT ALL COSTS for the sake of mankind, he wouldn’t reject the kryptonite from Luthor, even if he had reason for suspicion. Not to mention Luthor and Wayne are social enough for them to invite each other, as the movie shows.

            I can see why you’d believe any of what you said though…the movie is a jumbled, incoherent mess, and the plot is not really very solid, which causes one to have to fill in a lot of holes….there’s a lot of loose ends there, and that’s why it got poor reviews.

          • Keiran S-C

            you are the only person i have spoken to who believes the 2 teams of superheros were trying to kill each other. What evidence of that? their is no motivations for a 1 team to kill any of the other untill the very end when stark finds out aboiut his parents murderer.
            If stark had killed bucky then i would seem some motivation for cap to want stark dead but their is nothing in the film that indicates any hero trying to kill another. Stark wouldnt even consider killing cap to get to bucky.

            I think your imagining stakes that wernt their atall.

            —————–

            Lexs has a number of reasons to operate out of gotham since its incredibly easy to commit illegal acts there and it located fairly close to metropolis. That is why batman is ready to chase his agents through the streets since the kryptonite arrives at gotham harbor.

            Batman is torturing criminals by branding them from the opening scenes as he attempts to find out information on the white persian who he doesnt know is Lex luthor. Homing in on his operations within gotham.

            ——————-

            Lexs original plan is to have superman and batman fight were he is fairly confident superman will win and arrest him.

            The krpytonite is his plan for when superman succeeds and gets rid of batman so he is no longer a threat to lex.

            Batman then finds out the kryptonite is being shipped to gotham via the white persian and that lex is the man behind it and eventually steals it.

            This puts pressure on lex who resolves to accelerate his plans since batman now has the kryptonite and lex has nothing to protect himself from superman if he were to find out whos really behind the deaths in the dessert or the bombing.

            Lex then forces sueprman to fight and kill batman by kidnapping his mother because he believes one way or the other he will soon be arrested and this is the only way to destroy supermans symbol and get rid of a pest in the process. He would prefer for superman to die at the hands of batman since hes unstoppable but doubts it will happen that is why he needs collateral with supermans mother.

            superman doesnt kill batman and together they save martha and are coming for lex.

            Lex has planned for such a disappointing turn out to his plan by creating doomsday to kill superman.
            Whether superman kills batman or not he will still be killed by Doomsday regardless but by sending superman after the bat he doubles the chances supes will die and in his eyes confirms batman will die.

            ———————–

            Please tell me what part of this scene makes you think lex is happy batman stolen the kryptonite:
            https://youtu.be/P8a6n105faE?t=1m6s

            as i said: “Even though batman has the krptonite Lex doubts he is strong enough or has had the time to prepare to kill this alien once supes has been given the instinctive to kill and even if he does then all the better 1 hero down either way.”

            If either hero kills the other than Lex benefits he still has a method of control of sueprman via his mother and plans to kill superman with doomsday. If batman does it first, FANTASTIC, then he only has to deal with a man but he doubts a man is capable of killing superman in the first place.
            This falls through and neither hero dies and they succeed in saving martha.

            ————————-

            First of all Luthor and wayne are not social at all they dont know each other by any more than their reputation Lexs invitation is supposed to look like a simple invite to a wealth business man. When in reality he knows he is inviting batman and has arranged for superman to cover the event, he even plans to introduce clark to bruce at the ball.

            Lexs is also the one who sent clark kent batman newspapper clippings to the daily planet to incise him into investigating batman as both clark and superman. Not to mention kills the prisoners batman brands so that he receives more media attention and and seem more ruthless instead of just.

            ————————-

            Batman wants the kryptonite for exactly the reason lex proposes to the senator, as a deterant in case superman goes rogue, he hasnt made his mind up if being a threat for possible future attacks is a good enough reason to fight this god that is why he has alot of heart to hearts with Alfred.

            “The fear the rage thats what turns good men cruel” that is alfred saying his judgement is clouded by his emotions and the fear of a god and the rage at jason todds death are turning him into a cruel man willing to stop a threat before they have done anything wrong, after all superman has saved all of humanity and tons of people over the last 18 months.

            Batman is convinced he needs to stop superman once the bombing happens, no part of him believe superman can possibly be all good anymore, he believes superman has started killing anyone who refuses him which is what the hearing was attempting to find out. He sees that deterant needs to be used now before its too late.

          • Axxell

            you are the only person i have spoken to who believes the 2 teams of superheros were trying to kill each other. What evidence of that? their is no motivations for a 1 team to kill any of the other untill the very end when stark finds out aboiut his parents murderer.
            If stark had killed bucky then i would seem some motivation for cap to want stark dead but their is nothing in the film that indicates any hero trying to kill another. Stark wouldnt even consider killing cap to get to bucky.

            I think your imagining stakes that wernt their atall.

            Funny you should accuse me of that, because I never said they were trying to kill each other; I said that was Zemo’s plan, which is what we were discussing in the first place

            Lexs has a number of reasons to operate out of gotham since its incredibly easy to commit illegal acts there and it located fairly close to metropolis. That is why batman is ready to chase his agents through the streets since the kryptonite arrives at gotham harbor.

            Batman is torturing criminals by branding them from the opening scenes as he attempts to find out information on the white persian who he doesnt know is Lex luthor. Homing in on his operations within gotham.

            If that was the case, why does the movie not talk about Luthor’s plan to use Gotham as an entry point, leading him to become Batman’s enemy? The way it’s presented, the only reason Batman is investigating Luthor is because of this one instance where he tried to smuggle the kryptonite into Metropolis. Luthor hardly even talks about Batman in the movie, least of all to express any animosity toward him, whereas he’s not shy about declaring his massive contempt for Superman. Therefore, no one can logically believe that he wants anybody except Superman dead.

            Lexs original plan is to have superman and batman fight were he is fairly confident superman will win and arrest him.

            The krpytonite is his plan for when superman succeeds and gets rid of batman so he is no longer a threat to lex.

            Then his plan should’ve been much simpler; convince Superman that Batman had to die or be stopped.

            Instead he 1) tries to frame Superman for the death of people, which is misguided if he was gonna use Superman to get rid of Batman, and 2) goads Batman into formulating a plan of attack against Superman, which also works against his plan, again, if what he wanted was to kill Batman first.

            Lex then forces sueprman to fight and kill batman by kidnapping his mother because he believes one way or the other he will soon be arrested and this is the only way to destroy supermans symbol and get rid of a pest in the process. He would prefer for superman to die at the hands of batman since hes unstoppable but doubts it will happen that is why he needs collateral with supermans mother.

            This is one other plot point that makes no sense at all. Like, what was Luthor trying to achieve by kidnapping Martha Kent? Superman already thought Batman was a menace; if he wanted Batman dead, all he had to do was let him do what he already wanted to do. It’s like someone trying to kidnap my mother so that I punch Donald Trump in the face…completely unnecessary. But it was nice of him to explain his entire evil plan to Superman before he went to fight Batman…and this is what you call a “100% solid plan”?

            Please tell me what part of this scene makes you think lex is happy batman stolen the kryptonite:

            If that’s not a satisfied smirk from Luthor when he’s looking at the broken kryptonite container, then it’s really bad acting from Jesse Eisenberg. Whether intentional or not, it’s ambiguous details like these that make this movie a muddled mess.

            First of all Luthor and wayne are not social at all they dont know each other by any more than their reputation Lexs invitation is supposed to look like a simple invite to a wealth business man.

            Well, about as social as Bruce will be. We all know he doesn’t get out much, but it’s not like they have a strained relationship (the movie does say the lines are open between them to the point Luthor HAS invited Wayne over in the past, even if Wayne has simply declined). The point is, if Luthor had a solution to Batman’s Superman problem, there’s no reason why he’d be any more suspicious about him than anybody else who is afraid of Superman.

          • Keiran S-C

            I am saying it was never zemos plan to have the 2 teams fight to the death. He probably wanted stark to kill bucky but was satisfied with stark finding out who his parents murderer is while cap defends him.
            1 death was the most he ever planned to achieve.

            Zemo fully completed his plan in CW everything he wanted to achieve he did and his goals were extremely lame imo.

            —————–

            The first time batman is introduced while branding a criminal is to shows lexs presence in gotham, and batman makes it clear he has been locating and interrogating criminals about the white Persian for months while talking to Alfred. Luthor holds a decent amount of sway in the criminal underground of gotham and clearly has a working smuggling operation since he has the kryptonite moved from thousands of miles away to gotham very quickly and im assuming the women in the basement were connected to his criminal operations since batman found him a suspect worth interrogating.

            Attempting to smuggle the kryptonite though metropolis docks would be very risky whereas gotham is full of crime and a much easier place to get away with it plus he already has connections and agents in gotham anyway

            Lex doesnt know batman has found out about the mineral or that it is being smuggled in. He doesnt even know batman has figured out who or what the white persian is(detective batman) and the attempt to steal the kryptonite was a surprise for lex.

            ———————

            Lex truly hates everything about superman he wants to tarnish his image then kill him while all the time batman is nipping at his feet slowly torturing criminals who have done business with his agents and trying to find out who the white Persian is.

            He originally wants superman to deal with(arrest) batman to stop him from meddling in his criminal organisation and before he finds out lex is responsible. That is why he is goading both heroes to fight while also attempting to disgrace superman.
            He uses the dessert killings and the bombing to make superman seem like a threat to batman while disheartening supes and puts batman in clarks line of view every chance he gets so that superman will stop batman essentially ending his investigation before he uncovers anything incriminating about lex.

            Batman then finds out about lex and steals the kryptonite forcing lex to take care of him before the bat comes for him.
            He then kidnaps supes mother in order to deal with batman who is a bigger threat than he originally suspected, make use of the kryptonite he no longer owns, and tarnish supermans symbol by making him kill batman, all in one go.

            If Lex had waited around superman and batman would have eventually fought, superman would have probably won in lexs mind and arrested batman since he has no instinctive to kill. Batman would in turn either divulge lexs criminal organisation or break out and eventually come for lex anyway.
            While lex would have lost the kryptonite and superman would still be flying around free as can be after arresting the ultimate vigilante.

            Lexs best option was to force superman to take care of batman then take care of superman with doomsday.

            ———————-

            Once Lexs has taken martha and revealed he is behind the dessert and bombing he knows superman is going to come for him at some point, he cant hold his mother hostage forever and hope superman continues to do his bidding. He plans to have supermans last actions tarnish his symbol by killing the batman then kill him with Doomsday

            ————————–

            Dont you watch the MCU and CW how can you think lex is smirking during that scene O_o surely an MCU fan knows a smirk when they see one since its the only emotion the avengers can display.

            Lex has nothing of the sort on his face, his mind is quickly trying to figure out what his next move is and how to counter batman.
            Their is no smirk you are seeing want you want to see because you are resolute on hating this film.

            ————————-

            2 powerful companies located in neighboring cities have tried to do business in the past and Wayne enterprise refused thats it your trying to say thats a good relationship they dont even know each other.

            If lex gave him the kryptonite he would be revealing he is the white Persian who has been in charge of a criminal organisation and broken international law..
            Batman might want to stop that :/

            You are saying lex should just walk up to bruce and tell him he knows he is batman then give him an illegal mineral he is attempting to smuggle into the country via an agent who is linked to multiple international crimes which bruce has already been investigating. Admitting in the process that he is the white Persian who has been linked to all of the same crimes and what, just hope bruce accepts his offer of kryptonite and doesnt come knocking on his window dressed as batman.

            As i have said lex wants the kryptonite for himself he never wants batman to get his hands on it which is very clear in the film since he locks it up in his own tower surrounded by security and has the ppl transporting it equipped with mini guns and rocket launches.
            Again it is not until after batman steals the kyptonite that lexs feels the need to kill him because he now knows lex is a criminal responcible for all sorts of crimes in and out of gotham

          • Axxell

            I am saying it was never zemos plan to have the 2 teams fight to the death. He probably wanted stark to kill bucky but was satisfied with stark finding out who his parents murderer is while cap defends him.
            1 death was the most he ever planned to achieve.

            Zemo fully completed his plan in CW everything he wanted to achieve he did and his goals were extremely lame imo.

            You don’t get it…the reason you think his goals were lame is because YOU made them…Everything in the movie points to him wanting to have the Avengers destroyed. I asked you way back when this started; if Zemo only wanted Bucky killed, why did he let him out?

            You can’t answer that, because your whole premise makes no sense.

            Lex doesnt know batman has found out about the mineral or that it is being smuggled in. He doesnt even know batman has figured out who or what the white persian is(detective batman) and the attempt to steal the kryptonite was a surprise for lex.

            If that’s the case, why do you claim he wanted Batman dead? At the beginning of the movie, if Batman hasn’t appeared in his radar, then it’s obvious that the whole effort to get the kryptonite was prompted by something else (presumably his hatred of Superman), not because of an elaborate plan to kill Batman.

            He originally wants superman to deal with(arrest) batman to stop him from meddling in his criminal organisation and before he finds out lex is responsible. That is why he is goading both heroes to fight while also attempting to disgrace superman.
            He uses the dessert killings and the bombing to make superman seem like a threat to batman while disheartening supes and puts batman in clarks line of view every chance he gets so that superman will stop batman essentially ending his investigation before he uncovers anything incriminating about lex.

            One would think that if a criminal wants someone dead, they don’t want him to know they’re coming…so why the he11 does Luthor want Superman on Batman’s radar so that Batman will be on high alert when he comes? This is why I say Luthor’s plan is retarded…

            Even if he felt Batman needed to die right at that moment, he didn’t need to hold Martha hostage. Batman already was calling out to Superman with the Batsignal…Superman was gonna be there, kidnapped mom or not. So the whole thing is a useless plot device.

            If Lex had waited around superman and batman would have eventually fought, superman would have probably won in lexs mind and arrested batman since he has no instinctive to kill. Batman would in turn either divulge lexs criminal organisation or break out and eventually come for lex anyway.

            Considering Superman HAS killed before, what makes him think that he won’t kill Batman? And even if that were the case, he could’ve easily followed Superman and finished the job himself if Supes didn’t want to do it…

            Dont you watch the MCU and CW how can you think lex is smirking during that scene O_o surely an MCU fan knows a smirk when they see one since its the only emotion the avengers can display.

            Lex has nothing of the sort on his face, his mind is quickly trying to figure out what his next move is and how to counter batman.
            Their is no smirk you are seeing want you want to see because you are resolute on hating this film.

            Right. That’s why everybody outside of DCCU fans thinks Luthor was smirking; they’re all MCU fans who want to hate the film…because clearly that’s the face of disappointment…

            If lex gave him the kryptonite he would be revealing he is the white Persian who has been in charge of a criminal organisation and broken international law..
            Batman might want to stop that :/

            You are saying lex should just walk up to bruce and tell him he knows he is batman then give him an illegal mineral he is attempting to smuggle into the country via an agent who is linked to multiple international crimes which bruce has already been investigating. Admitting in the process that he is the white Persian who has been linked to all of the same crimes and what, just hope bruce accepts his offer of kryptonite and doesnt come knocking on his window dressed as batman.

            Or…before he even tries to bring the kryptonite through the White Russian, he could just walk up to Bruce Wayne and tell him he has a weapon that will protect the world against this vigilante alien, and that he needs help importing it and studying it, giving him an excuse to share “samples” with Wayne Tech, essentially handing it over to Batman. Kryptonite never gets tied to the smuggling operation, perhaps even making it legal with some additional lobbying from Wayne Enterprises Inc.

            You know, I don’t consider myself a genius, and yet it didn’t take me more than 10 seconds to think of that…

          • Keiran S-C

            He wants bucky free so that when he informs stark about who killed his parents cap will be the one standing in his way, why do you think zemo lead them to the old hydra agents bunker and killed all of the suped up agents and waited for stark cap and bucky to arrive only to show them the footage he could have emailed them.
            I thought this was blatantly obvious from watching the film not to mention my explanation.

            Zemo needs cap to be the one defending bucky from stark that is the major devastating event zemo thinks will break up the avengers and the writers made it just that.

            I am saying that is a lame reason to break up the entire avengers and they didnt even follow through with it being that big a deal to cap and starks relationship, yes it was bad for stark and they both need to work it out and accept it but caps already sent stark a nice little message saying he can rely on him when times get tough…….. stark knows bucky was brainwashed and cap knows stark was in a rage after realising bucky was responsible, eventually they will accept this.

            If they wanted it to really be devastating to their relationship the writers should of had stark kill bucky that way cap has a reason to always be angry with stark since he killed his best mate who had no control over his own actions and stark can resent cap for protecting the man who murdered his parents.

            youre the only person i have spoken to who thinks zemo really wanted the avengers to kill each other over this.

            ————————————-

            If i remember right i said lex wanted them both dead but i didnt state that was from the get go, although i might have said something different cba re reading through the 6000+ words i posted either way Lex wants them both dead after the kryptonite has been stolen so the run up to the “BVS” fight and on wards that is why he sends superman after batman.

            Batman is a pest up until the kyrptonite is stolen, lex will deal with him later presumably once superman has been dealt with but batman shows he is more of a threat to lexs plans and forced him to address the problem sooner than he would like which is the main reason his plans fall apart, even the death of doomsday relies on that plot point.

            ———————————–

            He kidnaps his mother because he knows superman wont kill batman without some motivation to do so he has only ever taken 1 life and that was to save humanity just imagine what lengths he will go to to save his mother and once he returns with batmans head, Doomsday to the face!

            Batman clearly knows lex is a bad guy whos been dealing in gotham at this point since he stole the kryptonite from his tower and has linked the agent responsible for those dealings to lex directly he just doesnt know he is responsible for the dessert killings, lois is the only one pulling at that string, Lex forcing superman to attack batman doesnt reveal anything to batman he doesnt already know and considering superman threatened batman of his own accord……..

            ———————————-

            LEx doesnt think superman will kill again since he has only killed once, and that was a member of his own species who was attempting genocide on all humanity and was about to melt a family in front of supermans eyes.

            Batman has killed criminals.

            Definitely different levels of evil, superman doesnt agree with batmans approach to dealing with crime and commands him to stop or else! this is imo a sign of respect for the good batman has done over the last 2 decades but since he has started killing superman feels he has gone to far yet gives him a chance to stop of his own accord and live a normal life.

            Superman knows he has good intentions since he only targets criminals and has saved countless innocents over the years but killing anyone who commits a crime just isnt appropriate.

            Superman took a life yes and it hurt him, the moment after he snaps zods neck he falls to his knees and shouts in agony showing a small piece of his soul being destroyed forever, and how zod still gets the last laugh even in death. Its something he never wants to do again and will only resort to it in horrific situations were it is the only option such as saving his mother.

            if this was the original superman movie were reeves saps zods powers leaving him defenseless then throws him off a cliff under the fortress of solitude to die all the while smiling with no regret. Then id see where you were coming from.

            ————————-

            Thats why lex arrives at his own tower confused from the destruction then wondering in with no idea whats happened, because he was expecting batman to steal it right? or was he pretending to look confused ?

            Maybe if lex wanted batman to steal the mineral he would of told his men to put up a fight but let batman steal it while its in transport or simply not equipped his men with such powerful weapons so that they would lose regardless.

            If they wanted to show lex happy at batman stealing the kryptonite they would of shown a scene with him behind his desk being informed the bat has stolen the mineral then leaning back in his chair and smiling.
            or once batman has stolen it from the tower they would show lex watching the CCTV footage in his office or on his phone and smiling.

            What they wouldnt do is show a scene after lex has safely gotten hold of the kryptonite and locked it up were he arrive at his own tower surprised at the destruction and wonders through only to realise the kryptonite is missing. Then have him go on to take drastic actions for the next stage of his plan.

            No one thought that was smiling, only the mcu fanboys apparently who cant understand a moderately complex plot :)

            ————————————-

            Youre forgetting the fact lex wants the kryptonite for himself as his method of killing superman, as his safeguard against superman. He wants supes dead with this mineral and does not plan for someone else to do it, he doesnt even consider batman capable of doing it.

            Batman fights criminals for a hobby not superbeings or aliens nothing indicates batman will be able to kill superman.
            Lex feels he and only he will know the best way to make use of this weakness and exploit it effectively.

            As i said luthors original plan is to have superman deal with batman before he has anything incriminating on lex or diggs into his deals with the terrorists.

            Lex doesnt consider batman as useful or as effective as you make out not until he shows he is more so.
            He only forces batman and superman to fight once batman has stolen the kryptonite by then he has no other choice but to make batman use the mineral to kill superman were he knows one will have to kill the other.

          • Axxell

            He wants bucky free so that when he informs stark about who killed his parents cap will be the one standing in his way, why do you think zemo lead them to the old hydra agents bunker and killed all of the suped up agents and waited for stark cap and bucky to arrive only to show them the footage he could have emailed them.
            I thought this was blatantly obvious from watching the film not to mention my explanation.

            Zemo needs cap to be the one defending bucky from stark that is the major devastating event zemo thinks will break up the avengers and the writers made it just that.

            And you really think Zemo, after deciding the Avengers were to blame for his family’s death, went through all the trouble of finding the trigger book for Bucky’s brainwashing, breaking him out of a high security prison with an elaborate plan, and got them together in a solitary facility so he could show them the brutal murder of Stark’s parents at the hands of Bucky…without the intention of having them kill each other? You said yourself; he could’ve emailed them the video if all he wanted was to break them up. It’s obvious that he wanted to give them an incentive to fight each other, possibly killing each other. It just can’t be read any other way.

            And the fact you admit yourself that your OWN interpretation is lame, yet still insist without evidence that this is the right interpretation, pretty much tells me that you’re the one who’s intent on making up flaws in the movie, flaws no one else believes.

            If i remember right i said lex wanted them both dead but i didnt state that was from the get go, although i might have said something different cba re reading through the 6000+ words i posted

            You did:

            “You also dont seem to have understood Lexs role in the film. He wants both hero dead and out of his business since batman has been closing in on his operations”

            This is just an example of how messy this movie is; you may think you have a solid grasp of what the plot is, but upon strick examination, every explanation falls apart.

            Anyways, now that we’ve come to agree Luthor was not trying to kill Batman (at least not from the beginning), my point about him using Batman to kill Superman stands. Unfortunately, all the contradictions I mentioned at the beginning are left still unexplained, which goes back to my original point about how bad the plot really is.

            He kidnaps his mother because he knows superman wont kill batman without some motivation to do so he has only ever taken 1 life and that was to save humanity just imagine what lengths he will go to to save his mother and once he returns with batmans head, Doomsday to the face!

            Nice plan! One question, though…What basis does Luthor have (or even the movie at all provide) to believe he won’t kill Batman on his own? Is there a killer in BvS that Superman hasn’t executed himself when given the chance? Now that I think about it, I don’t remember this Superman turning ANYONE in to justice…maybe you can refresh my memory? From Luthor’s perspective, Superman killed a potential killer, so why would he spare Batman, another known killer in his eyes?

            Definitely different levels of evil, superman doesnt agree with batmans approach to dealing with crime and commands him to stop or else! this is imo a sign of respect for the good batman has done over the last 2 decades but since he has started killing superman feels he has gone to far yet gives him a chance to stop of his own accord and live a normal life.

            I don’t see anything in the movie that leads me to believe Superman even knows what Batman did before; otherwise I’d have expected him to bring it up instead of being confrontational from the get go.

            No one thought that was smiling, only the mcu fanboys apparently who cant understand a moderately complex plot :)

            “No one” meaning anyone who’s not a DCCU fanboy…Yeah, “No one” rated this movie lowest of the modern comic book movies…”No one” berated it for it’s weak, contradictory, half-baked plot.

            It’s funny that you think it’s MCU fans who don’t understand a “complex” (Read: nonsense) plot, yet it seems as if you can’t decide as to whether it was Luthor’s plan to kill Batman from the beginning, as you said the opposite yourself in this very same post…and yet:

            As i said luthors original plan is to have superman deal with batman before he has anything incriminating on lex or diggs into his deals with the terrorists.

            Seems like you’re just as confused about what the plot should be…Making my point about how bad it is.

          • Keiran S-C

            i saw nothing indicating it was zemos plan to have stark and cap fight to the death. I don t see that ever happening or zemo ever expecting it to happen, even if cap is defending the man who killed starks parents it is incredibly unlikely stark will kill cap just to get his hands on bucky.

            What has ever lead you or zemo to believe stark would kill a man he has worked with for years and become more or less good friends with. Stark knows bucky was brainwashed, he is in a rage after seeing the video but to kill cap is one h**l of a stretch for zemo to expect.

            no, the plan was to make them fall out :( thats why it was a lame plot. I dont see any evidence to explain why zemo thought stark would murder his friend, i can see why he would expect him to kill bucky and if he had done then the falling out would of had some ground but he would never even attempt to kill cap and at no point in that film did it give me the impression that was a potential outcome.

            —————————

            Every explanation falls apart ay xD ok sure lol lets ignore the dozens of silly so called “plot holes” you have brought up which i have had to explain word for word to you and focus on 1 explanation which wasnt spoon fed as much.

            Youre grasping at straws now.

            sorry i wasnt specific about when lex wants batman dead it is obvious that he wants both heroes dead at some point in this film correct? and it is blatantly! obvious this begins with the “BVS” fight….. as i have pointed out he wants batman dead since he is interfering with his operations and finds out lexs is responsible or would you not consider smuggling in kryptonite and linking lex to criminal activity in gotham not to mention world wide to be one of lexs operations??? the moment batman steals the kryptonite revealing he knows lexs is behind the criminal activities, Lex wants batman dead.

            You accused me of pushing my own interpretations on to a film yet do it yourself by claiming lex should have walked up to bruce and handed him the kryptonite something which lex would never do especially within BVS as i gave perfectly good reasoning towards and something which simply does not fit with the characters personality in general.

            You repeatedly saying the narrative doesnt make sense without offering more than your own misinterpretation of lexs facial expression during a single scene is not even a weak argument, its non existent.

            Critics berated this movie because the market has been barraged with nothing but cringy and usually half assed films, age of ultron being the prime example of this.
            The main criticism(after sifting through nothing but insults) 9/10 negative reviewers had for BVS was that the film is too dark…. and that is why it deserved a 2-3/10 or less with no other reasoning to why they ever went into the cinema expecting a movie which tells “The Death of Superman” and introduces a batman following on from “A Death in the Family” to be a happy film.

            Just find me a fair review which doesnt use insults or bring up marvel.

            ——————————-

            sooo you are considering BVS as a single entity for some reason and not a follow on from MoS? this is a cinematic universe the actions of one film have repercussions on the others and superman has never shown a willingness to kill any bad guy which he can apprehend.

            He has taken a life once and it was devastating to him as any reasonable superhero fan can agree superman is not a manic killer willing to take a life left right and center. This is what batman and most of society fear is happening after the dessert killings.

            Do you feel Christopher Reeves superman was a manic murderer for killing zod when he threatened noone?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0

            So what if we didnt see superman arrest a couple of bank robbers and deliver them to the police station with a smirk on his face sprouting some cheesy one liner about being good to a kid as he ruffles their hair, we know he doesnt kill as he is superman! and this type of cringy scene doesnt fit in the realistic world especially not a rather dark one.
            This is something everyone knows does not need to be shown, we had a comment from bruce showing such actions which went along the lines of: “writing a puff piece editorial every time he saves a cat out of a tree”.

            We fr**king know superman doesnt kill criminals, he killed zod because he was unstoppable and determined to wipe out all of humanity you are irrationally claiming that superman being forced to take a life to save all of humanity is the exact same as him killing an ordinary human criminal he can overpower without breaking a sweat.

            Lex is a smart guy not a complete moron, like most critics apparently, he knows superman doesnt murder criminals which dont threaten the destruction of the entire world or you know in this case Batman.

            I cant believe i need to explain that superman isnt a crazed murderer O_o you are demonstrating the exact problem these so called “critics” have who berated BVS.

            Clark grew up on earth, in kansas not that far from metropolis which in turn is not far from gotham and as all of america knows batman exists and has been fighting criminals for decades its clear superman would know the good that batman has done over his 2 decade long career. After all Clark is a reporter attempting to write an article on the batman, hes done some research and watched the news over the last decade or so.

            Batman has been around for so long and is considered such a common element of gotham that perry white refuses to publish yet another article on batman its considered nothing out of the ordinary “Crime wave in gotham, in other news water wet”.

            Superman doesnt fly down and beat the h**l out of batman then tell him to stop. He knows batman is a man of action and addresses the man with such, by showing himself to be an unbeatable foe batman has no hope of disobeying and giving him a chance to cease his activities of his own accord. I thought this was a very superman way to approach the situation he shows himself as a very powerful even intimidating symbol yet merciful.

            Lex knows superman wont kill batman since he is “superman” and as we all know he wont kill someone unless it is the only possible way to save innocents. Batman threatens no innocents, if he was about to end humanity or blow up the world then theirs a decent possibility superman might be pushed to take his life if he couldnt apprehend him but as he doesnt you have no argument.

            This is not a reasonable discussion anymore :/

            ————————————

            No one with half a brain considers that a smile since such an expression simply wouldnt fit with his confusion during the scene.

            i dont care what some critics rated it they also rated age of ultron just short of 90% before its release and its one of the worst superhero films ive ever seen. IGN claimed Iron Man 3 is the best MCU movie yet before its release both of which deserve far lower than BVS.

            Watchmen also receive low ratings yet is a damn good superhero film better than almost all the MCU films imo.

            ————————–

            I explained the plot quite clearly the quote you referenced works seamlessly with how i explained lexs feelings towards batman and when they change you were simply confused on when lex wanted batman dead immediately instead of worrying about him later.

            The quote is true Lex originally plans to have superman deal with batman or in other words arrest him before he discovers anything incriminating(as i pointed out multiple times) that is why he is goading both of them. Once batman steals the kryptonite lex is forced to deal with batman immediately. That is as simple as i can put it.

            You are of yet to bring up a single point which i havnt explain in depth and none of which make me question anything about this film. It is truly a shame you were unable to keep up with the villains plot or each characters motivations during this film, they were perfectly clear to the audience who paid attention.

          • Axxell

            i saw nothing indicating it was zemos plan to have stark and cap fight to the death. I don t see that ever happening or zemo ever expecting it to happen, even if cap is defending the man who killed starks parents it is incredibly unlikely stark will kill cap just to get his hands on bucky.

            What has ever lead you or zemo to believe stark would kill a man he has worked with for years and become more or less good friends with. Stark knows bucky was brainwashed, he is in a rage after seeing the video but to kill cap is one h**l of a stretch for zemo to expect.

            Think of it this way: you believe Luthor kidnapping Martha is a sound motivator for Superman killing Batman…do you really think Superman would be less motivated if Luthor showed him footage of Batman (or someone he protects) actually killing his mom? Why wouldn’t Zemo reasonably expect that Stark, in his rage, would try to go through Captain America to get to kill his parents’ murderer, regardless of their history? If anything, Stark would have more reason to kill than Superman would…

            Every explanation falls apart ay xD ok sure lol lets ignore the dozens of silly so called “plot holes” you have brought up which i have had to explain word for word to you and focus on 1 explanation which wasnt spoon fed as much.

            Youre grasping at straws now.

            Sorry, but the movie actually provides plenty of evidence that his primary target was always Superman, and I can actually pull direct quotes from the movie where he declares his intention…You can’t do the same to prove he wanted Batman dead. All you can do is speculate, but my argument is more solid when Luthor himself is the one manifesting his plan.

            You accused me of pushing my own interpretations on to a film yet do it yourself by claiming lex should have walked up to bruce and handed him the kryptonite something which lex would never do especially within BVS as i gave perfectly good reasoning towards and something which simply does not fit with the characters personality in general.

            You repeatedly saying the narrative doesnt make sense without offering more than your own misinterpretation of lexs facial expression during a single scene is not even a weak argument, its non existent.

            No, I also provided his follow up speech when he draws Superman out and explains his evil plan…the speech never indicates that his plan changed because Batman stole the kryptonite. On the contrary, his gloating and showboating seems more like from a man whose ploy is going exactly as planned.

            Saying Luthor should’ve handed Batman the kryptonite is based on the widely accepted interpretation that Luthor wanted Batman to kill Superman. Now, you may argue that Luthor never wanted to get Batman involved in the killing of Superman, but that doesn’t explain why Luthor kept goading Wayne into thinking Superman was evil, or why he invited both of them to the gala. I’ve already pointed those out, but you’ve chosen not to address them up to this point.

          • Keiran S-C

            no it is not the same superman being blackmailed to kill because his mother will be burnt alive if he refuses is more incentive then finding out the person who killed your parents decades ago was a brainwashed soldier not control of his actions.
            Both are ofcourse traumatizing but one is more recent and can still be stopped if superman plays along stark is attacking out of anger and resentment towards cap for not telling him the truth the moment he found out which isnt a strong enough motivation to kill a man you consider your friend to get to the murderer who deep down stark knows wasnt in control of his own actions even if anger is clouding his judgement atm.

            i doubt stark was in such a blind rage that he would shoot through cap just to hit bucky. if he had then damn that would be some dark storytelling and would really show how a hero can become a villain when manipulated by another, we would see stark fall into depression over his guilt, something he should have done after ultron.
            But again i never once felt that was a possibility i was routing for him to kill bucky since that would be incredible character development.

            —————————–

            ermm im not really sure why you think i said batman was lexs primary target all along we seem to of miss communicated there, i have even stated that superman is his main focus while batman nips at the feet of his plans.

            Batman eventually becomes a bigger problem and by doing so forces lexs to accelerate his plans and attempt to take out both batman and superman in one swing with the BVS fight and Doomsday.

            ——————————–

            as i have said he originally wanted superman to arrest batman before he found out anything on lex that is why he has been goading them, before the kryptonite is stolen.

            Originally batman was not going to be used to kill superman but once he has stolen the kryptonite lex has no other option but to make him use it.

            If batman kills superman during the fight then great! supermans last actions were trying to kill a human whos saved countless lives and he dies never proving his innocents in the dessert, leaving doubt in everyones minds of his goodness.
            Why warn superman about a possible weakness which batman might exploit, if either hero kills the other during the fight then it is win/win for lex.

            you claim it is widely believed that lex planned for the 2 to fight to the death from the get go but imo that just speaks volumes about the ppl who watched the film and didnt pay attention to important parts of the narrative. Lexs plan was forced to change as the narrative went on and the heroes acted out side of his predictions..

          • Axxell

            no it is not the same superman being blackmailed to kill because his mother will be burnt alive if he refuses is more incentive then finding out the person who killed your parents decades ago was a brainwashed soldier not control of his actions.

            On one side you’ve got Luthor, dangling Martha in front of Superman just to get him to kill Batman. No matter what misgivings they may have between each other, Luthor surely knows Superman will deduce he’s the one who’s been pulling the strings and that Superman will have some serious misgivings about killing someone who has nothing to do with the kidnapping. You say Stark should forgive Bucky because he wasn’t in control…but Bucky still was the one who pulled the trigger. Batman doesn’t even kidnap Martha and you say Luthor should logically expect Superman to not hesistate?

            Stark, on the other hand, CAN rationalize killing Winter Soldier as justice, not only for his parents, but for all the people he’s killed (legitimately or not). And Stark up to this point has no reason to believe he’s changed, thanks to Zemo framing him for the assasination of T’Chaka. All the more reason to seek revenge.

            ermm im not really sure why you think i said batman was lexs primary target all along we seem to of miss communicated there, i have even stated that superman is his main focus while batman nips at the feet of his plans.

            Using proper sentences might help…Nevertheless, the fact is you keep speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Regardless of who Luthor originally intended to kill, it would stand to reason that he shouldn’t alert his target (Supes OR Bats) to his plan.

            If Superman is his primary focus, why does Luthor warn him about Batman?

            If Batman was his primary focus, why does he warn HIM about Superman?

            None of these questions can be answered satisfactorily.

          • Axxell

            Critics berated this movie because the market has been barraged with nothing but cringy and usually half assed films, age of ultron being the prime example of this.
            The main criticism(after sifting through nothing but insults) 9/10 negative reviewers had for BVS was that the film is too dark…. and that is why it deserved a 2-3/10 or less with no other reasoning to why they ever went into the cinema expecting a movie which tells “The Death of Superman” and introduces a batman following on from “A Death in the Family” to be a happy film.

            Seems like you’re admitting that “only DCCU fanboys” interpret the movie their own way while everybody else sees something very different…

            So what if we didnt see superman arrest a couple of bank robbers and deliver them to the police station with a smirk on his face sprouting some cheesy one liner about being good to a kid as he ruffles their hair, we know he doesnt kill as he is superman! and this type of cringy scene doesnt fit in the realistic world especially not a rather dark one.

            So after you’ve finished berating the rest of us for coming into these movies with the preconceived idea that Superman should never kill, only to have that thrown out the window with the execution of Zod…NOW you want us to go in assuming Superman never kills…a line that the movie never draws.

            Clark grew up on earth, in kansas not that far from metropolis which in turn is not far from gotham and as all of america knows batman exists and has been fighting criminals for decades its clear superman would know the good that batman has done over his 2 decade long career. After all Clark is a reporter attempting to write an article on the batman, hes done some research and watched the news over the last decade or so.

            If that’s the case, why is he writing about it now? The movie makes it seem as if Clark is finding out all this stuff anew; he doesn’t even recognize Bruce Wayne after living next to Gotham for years…doesn’t seem like he’s been awake at all during all that time…

            No one with half a brain considers that a smile since such an expression simply wouldnt fit with his confusion during the scene.

            I read his confusion as him not knowing where the attack came from. For all he knows, the government could’ve found out about the kryptonite and pulled a sting on him. But you can see his expression change when the camera focuses on the batarang left on the broken kryptonite case. He doesn’t show disappointment at all.

            You are of yet to bring up a single point which i havnt explain in depth and none of which make me question anything about this film.

            That’s all you say…”I explained all of them”, without actually addressing them. How about you start with just ONE of them, like explaining why, if Batman was Luthor’s original target, then why is he getting Superman on his radar?

          • Keiran S-C

            im stating that anyone who paid attention didnt imagine facial expressions and character motivations that didnt exist just so they could criticize a film which didnt have such plot holes.

            i am saying that a large amount of the ppl who rated the MCU so highly are not comic book fans, they dont go to the cinema knowing anything about these characters and they simply want to see an action packed film full of superbeings facing off against a big bad while the heroes beat him with cocky attitudes and wise cracks.
            Essentially cartoon episode of any superhero adaption.

            The general audience who dont know jason todd from di*k grayson or anything about such characters history dont go into these films looking for a complex plot or knowing anything about who these characters are they dont expect their heroes to be tested and pushed past their moral standings into impossible situations they simply expect a big bad alien invasion which needs to be stopped with funny beat downs and a big bomb.

            you cant tell me that any superhero fan was pleased with how quicksilver was killed, it was soo insulting to anyone who knows a thing about speedsters. i dont see how anyone who has read and appreciates comic books or superhero material in general can just accept an entire alien army being insta killed with no foreshadowing or explanation without questioning the quality of the writing or directing.
            I dont understand how ppl enjoyed a mass murderer, who even got Hitler references, being defeated in a funny manner while the heroes all go for sushi afterwards.

            that is unless this the franchise is supposed to have a very simplistic and immature tone to it, which most MCU fans will deny and that is were i have the problem. To then compare them to a pola opposite film and say it is better is ridiculous imo

            ——————————

            Well considering the last time superman was shown facing off against zod on the big screen he murdered him with a smile on his face when he posed no threat, i dont see how you can justify saying:

            “So after you’ve finished berating the rest of us for coming into these movies with the preconceived idea that Superman should never kill, only to have that thrown out the window with the execution of Zod”

            i am telling you that Cavils superman doesnt kill nearly as willingly as Reeves superman did and by no means has any canon interpretation of Supreman shown him killing criminals willy nilly. I dont see why a single person went into BVS thinking superman would do so this time round especially when the first and only time he has taken a life in this universe was beautifully shown to be truly devastating moment for his character.

            ——————————–

            Clark is attempting to push through his articles on batman now since he has recently become a reporter, at most! 18 months ago. He is still being sidelined to report on sports events and is only considered to report on lexs ball because he was asked for by the man himself.

            Clark not recognising a man he has never met irl before pulling up in a car isnt really him finding all this out anew, dozens of celebrities and CEOs have been turning up all night to the event this interaction is focused on to showcase clark seeing bruce for the first time.

            Its like being at the red carpet for the premier of the 3rd avengers movie and the CEO of marvel or disney turns up and gets tons of attention. You have only ever heard about them or seen a glimpse of them in some article so you turn to your mate and ask who is that.

            Dont forget that clark is very out of place here he is a farm boy he knows as much about batman as anyone else whos read a newspapper and watched a bit of gotham news does, he doesnt even suspect bruce is batman until he overhears him talking to alfred later on over an ear piece.

            The ultimate edition builds on clarks research into batman a little by showing him receive news clippings of batmans branding from the gotham newspaper sent anonymously(Lex) and talking to some ppl in gotham while one warns him of the bat. again not crucial to the narrative atall since we know he is researching into batman anyway.
            Although the clippings should have been in the theoretical edition imo

            —————————–

            i dont know why you read the scene that way, if the government knew about the smuggling they would of arrested lex outside of his tower their would be no need for a sting operation since they could search his premises lawfully since the shipping rites were denied by the senator.

            I read the scene as batman forcing a hole in lexs plans and the moment he sees the bat on the CCTV footage is the moment his stomach sinks, once he see the kryptonite has indeed been taken and replaced by the arrogant batarrang i read the scene and his expressions, as him trying to quickly understand how much batman knows and how he can course correct the path batman has set his plans on. All the while trying to maintaining his frustration and fear from showing so that he can think straight.

            I mean during that moment of realisation lex is terrified for a split section that batman knows he is behind the dessert killings. Once he calms down and relaises batman wouldnt of taken the kryptonite if had known and would of instead attempted to contact superman before acting, knowing his innocents lex knows he can still work with this if he acts quickly. hence why his next actions are so rash(kidnapping martha)

            If this was almost any other villain i would probably call this a stretch but lex is supposed to be a genius and BVSs version of lex plays up the genius side specifically that is why i feel all this is more than just plusable but should be the first thing ppl consider.

            ———————————

            i pointed out in my last comment that i dont think batman was his original target from the get go so i wont go into that again. I have replied to every question about the plot or character motivations you have brought up with more than reasonable explanations :S you have listed alot most of which have been inaccurate or misinterpreted i answered a number in this comment already and every other one.

            This discussion has just sizzled down to you repeating your question and me repeating my answers.

          • Axxell

            im stating that anyone who paid attention didnt imagine facial expressions and character motivations that didnt exist just so they could criticize a film which didnt have such plot holes.

            i am saying that a large amount of the ppl who rated the MCU so highly are not comic book fans, they dont go to the cinema knowing anything about these characters and they simply want to see an action packed film full of superbeings facing off against a big bad while the heroes beat him with cocky attitudes and wise cracks.
            Essentially cartoon episode of any superhero adaption.

            The general audience who dont know jason todd from di*k grayson or anything about such characters history dont go into these films looking for a complex plot or knowing anything about who these characters are they dont expect their heroes to be tested and pushed past their moral standings into impossible situations they simply expect a big bad alien invasion which needs to be stopped with funny beat downs and a big bomb.

            you cant tell me that any superhero fan was pleased with how quicksilver was killed, it was soo insulting to anyone who knows a thing about speedsters. i dont see how anyone who has read and appreciates comic books or superhero material in general can just accept an entire alien army being insta killed with no foreshadowing or explanation without questioning the quality of the writing or directing.
            I dont understand how ppl enjoyed a mass murderer, who even got Hitler references, being defeated in a funny manner while the heroes all go for sushi afterwards.

            that is unless this the franchise is supposed to have a very simplistic and immature tone to it, which most MCU fans will deny and that is were i have the problem. To then compare them to a pola opposite film and say it is better is ridiculous imo

            So basically the typical DCCU fan fare…Blame Marvel fans for all the failures being pointed out about the DCCU…after pretending to be in the majority opinion.

            i am telling you that Cavils superman doesnt kill nearly as willingly as Reeves superman did and by no means has any canon interpretation of Supreman shown him killing criminals willy nilly. I dont see why a single person went into BVS thinking superman would do so this time round especially when the first and only time he has taken a life in this universe was beautifully shown to be truly devastating moment for his character.

            You’re looking at this from the audience’s POV; I’m looking at this from Luthor’s perspective…He doesn’t know or care about Superman’s feelings on killing. All he knows is, he killed Zod. And in Luthor’s eyes, if he was persuaded to kill once, he could be persuaded to kill again. Luthor should have no reason to believe Superman won’t kill if convinced it was necessary.

            Clark is attempting to push through his articles on batman now since he has recently become a reporter, at most! 18 months ago. He is still being sidelined to report on sports events and is only considered to report on lexs ball because he was asked for by the man himself.

            Clark not recognising a man he has never met irl before pulling up in a car isnt really him finding all this out anew, dozens of celebrities and CEOs have been turning up all night to the event this interaction is focused on to showcase clark seeing bruce for the first time.

            I find that a hard sell for a reporter not to know the owner of one of the most important companies between the two cities. Furthermore, neither Perry White nor Clark Kent give any indication the first time the subject is brought up that the Batman has been discussed before.

            I read the scene as batman forcing a hole in lexs plans and the moment he sees the bat on the CCTV footage is the moment his stomach sinks, once he see the kryptonite has indeed been taken and replaced by the arrogant batarrang i read the scene and his expressions, as him trying to quickly understand how much batman knows and how he can course correct the path batman has set his plans on. All the while trying to maintaining his frustration and fear from showing so that he can think straight.

            So you call his completely pleasant non-reaction to his prized weapon being taken, as Luthor “maintaining his frustration and fear from showing”, because he’s such a genius? Even though nothing in the movie indicates there’s been a change in plans?

            i pointed out in my last comment that i dont think batman was his original target from the get go so i wont go into that again. I have replied to every question about the plot or character motivations you have brought up with more than reasonable explanations :S you have listed alot most of which have been inaccurate or misinterpreted i answered a number in this comment already and every other one.

            This discussion has just sizzled down to you repeating your question and me repeating my answers.

            See, there you go again…I asked you to explain yourself and all you can say is that you already did, when it’s clear you haven’t. I asked you to answer just ONE plot hole, and you dodged the question instead…

          • Axxell

            BVS keeps true to the comics and shows a flash from the future attempting to warn bruce that superman turns evil with the arrival of darkseid and set up the story arc of the DCEU

            Sorry, I don’t remember Flash causing people to have visions…maybe you can point me to the source?

            you are telling me stark has 0 character development through the franchise that a woman blaming him for the death of her son had no affect on his judgment, that unleashing ultron and killing thousands had no affect on his personality and he experiences no guilt. For these reasons alone he would not hire a kid and throw him into danger especially the worlds greatest assassin, yes he knows he is pretty freaking strong and can shoot webs thats it he is still inexperienced and most importantly UNDERAGE!! if he simply wawsnt underage then this wouldnt be contradicting to the opening scene.

            Except the kid that died didn’t do so because he was fighting alongside the Avengers; he had no powers. You completely missed the point that his mom was trying to make, making Stark responsible for her son’s death. As such, Stark took precautions. You speak as if Peter Parker and the kid who died were comparable; they were 2 completely different scenarios, beginning with the fact that A) Spiderman had superpowers, B) He already had ample experience fighting crime, and C) Stark told him he was going to be on a support role, and even when he got more involved (of his own accord), he still managed to play a key role in defeating Cap’s team, despite your insistance that he did nothing after 5 min.

            As i said a man in his position would learn to hide his feelings when hearing their names in general conversation but not during the most adrenaline fueled moment in his life they would come bursting out in confusing and anger as they did , then give way to understanding and reasoning/acceptance<<< incredible character development right there.

            It wasn’t believable, that’s why nobody bought it. You’re trying to rationalize Batman becoming weak and feeble when he’s full of adrenaline and hears his parents’ name. He spent years getting ready to kill this guy, Alfred tries to reason with him and he gets fired up about how necessary it is…and all it took to stop him was to hear his mom’s name?

            Sorry. That’s not credible

            My reasoning was perfectly sane the government would never want a man responsible for mass murderer as the face of their new superhero team. i really dont understand how anyone can dissagree with me.

            The government doesn’t need him as a “face”; they need him as a leader of the Avengers. And considering they’ve got no other option as capable of doing it, Stark is the only one they’ve got. Sure, they probably would prefer someone else…but there’s only one Tony Stark, and only one Ironman.

            The general public all know stark is responsible for Ultron hence why a member of the public confronts him in the opening scene drawing a great amount of attention to the fact he should feel responsibility and guilt then craps it all away by having him hire a kid, superpowers or not.

            Notice that no one from the public actually blames him for Ultron; they blame them for causing too much destruction…The only ones who know about Ultron’s origin are the Avengers.

          • Axxell

            I understand he has lost faith in them after the actions of Winter Soldier but if it meant saving the last man on earth which links him to his old life, his best friend no less who has been tortured and brainwashed for decades he would do anything! to guarantee his safety and the best possible way to do that ATM is to have the whole team work together towards bringing him in SAFELY without a kill order on his head.

            Except that the government can’t guarantee he won’t be executed, especially after the assasination of T’Chaka, which was pinned on him; Cap doesn’t trust the government, and he’s convinced (rightfully so) someone else is pulling the strings to frame Bucky. Bargaining with the government would achieve NOTHING. By running off with Bucky, he actually bought him time, so while you think it was moronic, it actually worked. Bucky would’ve been dead by the end of the movie if he hadn’t escaped with Cap.

            As i said in my comment “as we know Darksied has seen” we, WE know, an alien attack has already happened simply because superman is located on earth and that attack nearly ended humanity their is nothing stopping more attacks from happening and batman sees that threat.

            That’s my point…Batman CAN’T see that threat if he doesn’t know about Darkseid, so that’s not a motivation. You’re trying to claim that Batman is acting on the idea that Superman paints a target on earth, to account for Batman’s irrational zeal in trying to kill him. But the fact is he really has no other reason to kill Superman other than the possibility of him going evil. I’m telling you, this movie is not as deep as you’d like to believe it to be.

            This also shows a realistic way to deal with the repercussions of mass murder when a hero is accidentally responsible, the only difference between supermans story line and starks in this instance is superman had no control over where he was sent as a baby, stark created ultron out of stubbornness and a refusal to listen to his team mates telling him not to medal with alien tech or curiosity for short. Which fit both characters perfectly the after affects of their actions on the other hand were handled perfectly by BVS and terribly by CW.

            Batman could be seen just as responsible for Superman’s death…had he actually lived up to the billing of “world’s greatest detective”, he might’ve had a chad with Superman instead, found he’s just a cool guy and imprisoned Luthor.

            It’s a good thing there are no “repercussions” on BvS, though…since Superman isn’t really dead…

          • Keiran S-C

            So cap decides not to even attempt to bargain or get the kill order taken off of Buckys head but instead decides to run off on his own to locate and bring in bucky the first chance he gets O_o

            Once he finds out Bucky is innocent and theyre in pursuit of zemo then confronted by stark and his team at no point does cap feel fit to say “bucky is innocent and we know who is responsible”. The fight doesnt even need to happen it was simply used to create actions scenes for the sake of action/comedy.

            Think about it this way if cap simply said to stark the moment he arrived at the airport, “Bucky didnt bomb the UN building hes innocent”.
            Stak would have said “what are you on about i saw the footage”.
            Cap would say “that wasnt him he was framed and we are pursuing the man responsible, Help Us”

            What is stark going to say “oh no i cant the government really want me to arrest bucky” because that really wouldnt fit his personality at all.
            Cap would clearly have a reason to believe buckys innocents and has offered up another person as responsible.

            Unless the years cap and stark spent fighting together meant absolutely nothing to stark and for some reason he cant trust cap, then why woudlnt stark bring in the real man responsible for bombing the UN building? after all thats what the government want and he has no reason to think cap is lying.

            ————————–

            Their is plenty of reason to fear another alien attack. Are you saying that having superman and the codex located on earth couldn’t possibly attract an alien threat? or that their is only 1 guy who would ever be interested in creating more kryptonians?
            Darkseid could probably create an army of kryptonians from supermans DNA alone. Hes made a army of doomsday’s before int he comics.

            A bunch a non super powered kyptonian criminals with a half damaged prison ship managed to track superman to earth and nearly kill everyone imagine what any other alien species could do when they have resources.

            Do you watch films like Independence Day or War of the Worlds and expect humans to have no fear of future alien attacks once the main threat is dealt with by the end of the film?.
            In BVS humanity have a constant reminded of that threat flying around metropolis every day.
            Batman embodies that fear as well as what superman can become and Lex provides the evidence he has become “evil” or in other words an overlord deciding who lives and who dies and its only a matter of time before he brings that to America.

            ———————-

            Batman isnt responsible for supermans death atall, what? if he had killed him himself then yeah he would be responsible obviously but he has a completely justifiable reason to kill superman at the time.
            Superman dies to doomsday in case you missed that :S He sacrifices himself to stop doomsday from killing anyone else and doesnt know for sure if he will be killed in the attack he just knows he risking his life to deal a lethal blow. to a monster no one else can stop.

            If anyone can be technically responsible its the government for nuking them both in the space in an attempt to be rid of both superman and doomsday in a single blow.

            Batman has no reason to feel guilt in fact if he hadnt stolen the krptonite from lex then lex would have either used the kryptonite against superman or released doomsday on superman both of which would have killed him.
            The only reason superman can make his attack is because batman created the spear and used the gas canister on doomsday.

            Batman still feels like he failed him in life since he was willing to believe superman coudlnt simply be a good man
            doing the right thing.

            and now your questioning The Death of Superman xD the most famous death in comic history lol. The repercussions of his death are already seen in BVS by having an alien give his life to save humanity(the ultimate sacrifice) and from a human created threat no less, convinces everyone that he was truly good and shows superman become that symbol of hope at last.

            His sacrifice also shows how society are now willing to accept super beings, preparing the world for the justice league in the process.
            And most importantly shows the redemption of batman from this dark murderous hole he fell into after jasons death.

            Thats repercussions, CWs repercussions are miniature in comparison and mediocre if we are being honest. Cap and Stark remain wary mates ready to call each other when in need, their were 0 deaths or emotional upheavals besides a well known assassin killing starks parents decades ago and it all ends with bucky freezing himself anyway…..
            If they had killed off cap as i believe they did in the comics(or at least with a narrative adaption worth killing him off with) then i wouldnt question it when they brought him back to life because thats inevitable for superheros especially in movies and i would know they attempted a narrative with some emotion or meaning.

          • Axxell

            Once he finds out Bucky is innocent and theyre in pursuit of zemo then confronted by stark and his team at no point does cap feel fit to say “bucky is innocent and we know who is responsible”. The fight doesnt even need to happen it was simply used to create actions scenes for the sake of action/comedy.

            Think about it this way if cap simply said to stark the moment he arrived at the airport, “Bucky didnt bomb the UN building hes innocent”.
            Stak would have said “what are you on about i saw the footage”.
            Cap would say “that wasnt him he was framed and we are pursuing the man responsible, Help Us”

            Two things: 1) Cap has no evidence that Bucky was not the one who did it. So it’s video evidence, historical precedent, against Cap’s word, which 2) is compromised because of Cap’s relationship with Bucky…no one believes Cap is impartial when it comes to him, and they believe he’s trying to protect him. With no evidence to the contrary, Cap has no way to convince anyone that Bucky is not still a killer.

            Their is plenty of reason to fear another alien attack. Are you saying that having superman and the codex located on earth couldn’t possibly attract an alien threat? or that their is only 1 guy who would ever be interested in creating more kryptonians?
            Darkseid could probably create an army of kryptonians from supermans DNA alone. Hes made a army of doomsday’s before in the comics.

            Like I already said, Batman doesn’t know about Darkseid, so he’d have no reason to fear him or what he’d do if he doesn’t know he exists.

            Batman isnt responsible for supermans death atall, what? if he had killed him himself then yeah he would be responsible obviously but he has a completely justifiable reason to kill superman at the time.
            Superman dies to doomsday in case you missed that

            A Doomsday that was created because Batman was too busy fighting Superman instead of stopping Luthor, the real villain. And it doesn’t matter that Batman thought killing Superman was “justifiable”, when you’re lambasting Stark for creating an AI with “justifiable” origin. If Stark is guilty of “mass murder” by omission, then so is Batman. No double standards.

            and now your questioning The Death of Superman xD the most famous death in comic history lol.

            No, not questioning the Death of Superman, rather the logic fanboys use to criticize Marvel movies, claiming that someone has to die and stay dead for a story to be good.

          • Keiran S-C

            Still i have never said batman knows about Darkseid specifically.

            Their is plenty of reason to fear another alien attack after Zod.
            Are you saying that having superman and the codex located on earth couldn’t possibly attract any other alien threat? or that their is only 1 guy(zod) who would ever be interested in creating more kryptonians? no, there are plenty of other alien races out their who would be.

            Do you watch films like Independence Day or War of the Worlds and think humanity has no concerns over future alien attacks after they have defeated the current one?.
            BVS has an alien flying around metropolis every day reminding them of that threat.

            as i said this is not the only reason or the strongest reason as to why batman feels the need to stop sueprman.

            —————————

            As i said stark was justified in creating ultron it was out of stubbornest and a refusal to listen to his teammates warnings but it fits his character perfectly. CW shows he has no guilt over directly creating the machine that killed hundreds or thousands of people.

            Batman neither killed superman or knew luthor was creating a monster capable of killing superman. Batman fought superman because he and a massive % of humanity agree, superman was a threat and if the accusations of him killing people in the desert are true then he is quickly becoming histories most powerful dictator killing those he disagrees with.

            Is batman supposed to priorities a human whos committed a number of serious crimes all of which are terrible true or the superbeing capable of ruling over all humanity with a steel fist and who started the fight when he threatening batman.
            “The bat is dead bury it”, “the next time they shine that light dont answer it”
            Batman can always come for Lex afterwards the considerably larger threat is dealt with, its not like lex is going to skip town and abandon his billion $ empire is it.

            ————————

            You said their were no repercussions to supermans death which is in no way true as i listed. The death and resurrection of superheros is a very “comic booky” thing to do and doesnt undermine the importance of the heros sacrifice atall since they dont know they are going to come back to life.

            The MCU makes a mockery of character deaths. Look at coulsens his last moments were him sitting on the floor with a huge gun on his lap as he shoots Loki then says “so thats what it does”.
            They show quicksilver shot to death…………………….. and his final words are “i bet you didnt expect that” pff he is leaving a tortured sister behind in the middle of a battlefield and his last words are a one liner why didnt they show him looking at clint and say “look after her” or “protect her” something similar with a tear in his eye or while his voice cracks, not “i bet you didnt expect that” ffs i was surprised he didnt wink and smirk before keeling over.

            Then the film goes back to comically beating up the flimsy robots and punching the big bad ryan renolds themed villain off into the distance 60 seconds after quicksilvers death…

    • Easy Tab

      “I havnt seen a film with such terrible performances and such an incoherent narrative as CW since the first avengers film” Luckily not many people tend to share your opinion good sir…

      • Keiran S-C

        unfortunately :/ i dont understand how any superhero fan can be happy with an alien invasion insta dying without even being told about a connection between the aliens thats 101 of a hive mind story just play Mass Effect 2 and youl see how it should be done.
        Or the villain being comically beaten up like some cartoon character and completely disregarding the severity of his actions and the hundreds of people hes killed including coulsen.

        I dont understand how superhero fans can enjoy a film were a speedster is shot to death ffs o_o clearly it was not written or directed by ppl who have read comics in their life.

        CW had better performances than both the avenger films (which isnt hard) but worse writing for nearly every character besides Black Pantha(the only positive to come out of the film). some of the comments approve go into more detail but they are all glaringly obvious when watching the film. Weak motivations, a continuation of the truly terrible miss use of comedy the MCU is famous for and an incredibly lame villains plot even if he had the best villian backstory in the franchise.

        “Mr.Stank” sums up CW :/

        • Easy Tab

          Well atleast you have the decency to give a good enough reason as to why you dislike the film unlike certain other people in this comment section

  • BvS
    X-Men: Apocalypse
    Deadpool
    SS
    TMNT 2
    Dr. Strange (Flavor of the week, obviously)

    • Axxell

      Thanks for providing your own worst to best ranking…You missed CW, though.

      • Added it and you know how I judge these movies? Based on story and Quality. Marvel’s quality has been dwindling down since the Avengers movie. Civil War was just plain disappointing to it’s fanbase and heck, I didn’t hate it, but it wasn’t deep enough for me. It had potential, but the execution was lacking. Dr. Strange was pretty much what I expected. It was Ant-man. At least I enjoyed and laughed with Ant-man. Dr. Strange was… meh.

        Understand that I do NOT want to have this list. If every movie was amazing, I’d be more than happy.

        • Axxell

          Of course you would; so would everybody else who liked CW better than BvS…

        • Easy Tab

          “Civil War was just plain disappointing to it’s fanbase” You say that as if your opinion is in the majority….

  • Marquis DC Sade

    This list is based on personal opinion, there can be no definitive list of best/worst CB films of the year because film is a subjective medium. Now if you want to talk about which films made the most money, that’s another story because that’s something you can quantify.

    • frelling_cute

      Isn’t giving their opinion what bloggers and critics do for a living. Of course it is subjective.

  • Caio Lourêncio

    My personal order:
    1-BvS
    2-CW
    3-Doctor Strange
    4-Deadpool
    5-X-men: Apocalypse
    6-Suicide Squad

    • Carl’s a pretty weird dude…

      TRUE!

  • batghost

    1. Civil War – all around fantastic movie. (You are either a liar or a cynical @$$hole who doesn’t like fun if you say otherwise)
    2. Deadpool was good, but not nearly as great as people tend to make it out to be.
    3. Doctor Strange was a totally good film one could expect from Marvel, but with no improvement on the flaws that even the fans find in the movies. Still not enough to knock it down though.
    4. Suicide Squad had great characters and a few great performances, but you can barely even call it a movie.
    5. X-Men: Apocalypse is typical garbage from Bryan Singer’s X films. This franchise desperately needs to have a soft-reboot (First Class is still the best by far)
    6. Never saw TMNT 2
    7. BvS is an insult to film lovers and comic book fans and will easily be remembered as one of the worst comic book movies ever made.

    • Nightwing

      Damn, my Feige(r) counter went off charts here. “You are either a liar or a cynical @$$hole who doesn’t like fun if you say otherwise” It was really a lame movie man. And I love Marvel movies. Winter Soldier is still the greatest. CW was just a big letdown.

      • batghost

        Winter Soldier is the best. Agreed on that. Civil War was a fantastic movie that built further on the story from Winter Soldier. Sooo…are you lying or are you a cynical @$$hole?

        • Nightwing

          So, WS killed Stark’s parents, but Cap just can’t see past Bucky being his childhood friend. If he gave Barnes to the authorities there would be no civil war. Then you have Stark who killed some student in Sokovia but he doesn’t give a damn because he goes on to recruit a kid to fight a bonafide superhero team. Also, Stark is supposed to be heart broken after what happened to Pepper, but he’s got his game face on when he notices May. And after all that, the government wants a killer like Stark to lead the avengers? Oh, wait, this movie had a villain right? Zemo is marvel’s equivalent of Lex Luthor, relies mostly on luck to execute his plan. Then you have the marvel’s courage of killing off characters. They tease us with Rhodes but he turns out fine. Just like BvS this movie had to lay ground for future heroes, but in a better way. Big showdown is nothing fantastic, it’s like watching every other marvel’s movie fight scene. Score is a forgettable mess, just like the movie, but marvel’s movies have always been plagued by bad scores.

          • batghost

            Cool. Cynical. Thanks for the response. Enjoy your day.

          • Nightwing

            Or you can just get it through your thick skull that not everyone likes the movie.

          • batghost

            Right. Cynical @$$holes. Cheers.

  • Chris27

    CW
    Deadpool
    Dr Strange
    BVS
    X Men
    SS

    Was close with CW/Deadpool but I think CW was better movie.

  • thecozmicleague

    Pretty bad list. No way Dr strange and SS beat out BvS.

  • Ausmaan Raja

    BVSUE
    CW
    DEADPOOL
    DRS
    XMEN
    SS
    TMNT

    For me BVSEU is such a different tone to all the others it actually tackles serious issues regarding superheroes. Im all for seeing my heroes on a pedestal but I’ve seen that do death now. what WB and Snyder did was break our DC heroes down to build them better and greater than they where before. Also they had the balls to actual kill a leading hero unlike another CBM movie.

    Im just getting sick of nothing actual ever happening in the MCU its become predictable now. It literally feels like Saturday morning cartoon.

    Finally on my point I’m kinda glad people keep on ripping on DC because it means comic book fans especially regard the DC heroes much higher than they do Marvel. Ultimately it means we will get (hopefully) better and better DCEU films. See every one in June for Wonder Woman.

  • Getting on soapabox: So the only meaningful context for a discussion like this is personal taste. We can state why we personally like one film more than another and so forth. The reasons why we react as we do to films are ultimately subjective and idiosyncratic, imo. It our personal life history, individual states, unique personality structure, and events that have shaped us that determines why something in a film strikes a chord with us or leaves us cold. Who am I to presume to tell anyone else what they should or should not like? Or which films are “objectively better or worse” than one another? Same thing. that would be asinine of me.

    Anyway, with that said, my personal ranking:

    5) Deadpool – I’m sorry, I don’t know this character from the comics. And evidently maybe one has to in order to really enjoy and appreciate Deadpool. I understand that he is a parody of Deathstroke and is intended to spoof all sorts of comic book genre conventions. He breaks the 4th wall all the time as a part of that, etc. I can find no fault with any of the elements of the film which were all extremely well executed. I just don’t relate to the character concept. The humor fell flat for me as forced and contrived. It just was’t for me. I love the illusion that superheroes feel like they really could exist. Deadpool’s humor works against that (for me).

    4) Doctor Strange – I realized after watching this film, and comparing Steven Strange with Tony Stark, that with every prior lead superhero character in the MCU I have really liked the character as a person. Steven Strange is the first one that isn’t inherently likable. He’s kind of a jerk. I realize he’s supposed to be. But still, I therefore had a little more trouble connecting with him and caring about what happens to him regardless. I didn’t find myself instinctively rooting for him very much. Also, although Mikkelsen is a great actor, his character as written still feels to me like a cardboard cutout villain. His motivations felt like a prop to transparently propel the plot forward. The film didn’t impart to me a sense of who the character is as a person, or what motivates him beyond a broad superficial level. (When will the MCU give as a new villain that rivals Loki?) I also felt a bit letdown by how magic was handled. To me it did not feel mysterious or “numinous.” Instead it felt kind of Matrix-y. I also felt that the kaleidoscopically folding cityscapes action theme was overused. Otherwise the film is strong. It just didn’t pull me in.

    3) Suicide Squad – I felt let down by this one, although I did manage to get more enjoyment from it than not. It managed to be at least superficially entertaining because the characters were a lot of fun, and the actors playing them did a really fine job. Margot Robbie in particular. Will Smith and Jay Hernandez were also excellent. But the story itself had some obvious editing problems. The reshoots of the ‘dossiers’ of each member of the crew set to a theme song apparently left no room for scenes that I’m sure would have told a more coherent story. At least that’s how it seemed to me. I haven’t seen the Extended Cut with its whopping 11 minutes of additional footage (waiting for the 4K blu ray of that). But anyway, this is a film that should express a darkly cynical view of how the military and intelligence agencies would deal with meta-humans, extra-terrestrials, and divine magic, etc. I was hoping for it to have a more ominous, eerier, creepier tone. But the suits at WB were all freaked out about the reaction to BvS, For me, SS missed an opportunity to drive home why if all this superhero stuff was real we should deeply distrust the powers-that-be to deal with it. (Kudos to Jonathan Kent’s instincts about that in MoS.)

    2) Captain America: Civil War – This is another film that I was personally underwhelmed by. The fight scenes were fun, but after so many of them it started to lose impact and feel like a Kung Fu movie to me. This is probably just me, but I also didn’t feel much of a sense of stakes to what motivated the characters, or gravity to the events. Parallel criticisms of BvS’s Martha moment are fair (although I have concocted my own ‘good enough’ explanation of it from the film that satisfies me)–but this film too ends on a weak plot point to my mind, namely that Tony Stark clearly should have grasped that the WS had no control over his actions whatsoever. Plain and simple. That wasn’t “Bucky” but rather a kind of programmed automaton. And this movie gives us a more grown up, mature, sober Tony Stark! But all that said, it was still fun to watch the fights. About all I really cared about in this film was the fight scenes. And the introductions of Black Panther and Spidey were well executed.

    1) BvS – Achieves this top ranking on the basis of what I believe is Snyder’s project of asking “what would it look like if these superheroes actually inhabited the real world? What are the implications of that?” I had never seen that done before. And for me, the films has a feeling of mythic, epic, gravitas. Yes, the film is flawed! (For that matter so am I! So are you. ;-P) But the film’s shortcomings and problems are relatively minor to me compared with just how bold the film’s vision is artistically (at least in my mind). I only watch this film in the UE version paired consecutively with Man of Steel, also in 4K. And I’d be lying if I didn’t acknowledge that the fact that I can watch both films in 4K influences me. (Disney please release your MCU films in 4K already!)

  • Doctor Strange is much better than Civil War

  • Keiran S-C

    CW should easily be 6th or 7th on this list

  • Mitifly

    civil war or batman v superman should be in #1

  • 12stepCornelius

    If you still had issues keeping up with BvS’s story after the Ultimate Edition, I just feel sorry for you. How people still didn’t understand the characters’ and their motivations is just baffling.