David Ayer Shares His Thoughts On ‘Batman v Superman’

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It is pretty clear that Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice didn’t achieve the success that Warner Bros. and DC hoped it would attain. Granted, the film was still a financial juggernaut, having earned over $872 million in its worldwide culmination, but the studio hoped that this film would have easily crossed the $1 billion mark had the theatrical cut been stronger and/or had positive buzz from critics and audiences alike.

Personally, I was underwhelmed with Batman v Superman – at least with its original theatrical release. I felt that visually, director Zack Snyder soars to unprecedented heights, but felt that the film was poorly put together on an editing standpoint, making the film’s narrative almost incoherent. Thankfully, my tune changed a bit when I saw the Ultimate Edition which added 30 minutes to the film, further enriching the story to something that was actually quite compelling to watch.

Despite the mixed-to-negative response to the film, Suicide Squad director David Ayer sang the film’s praises. In an interview with JoBlo, Ayer discusses his thoughts on Batman v Superman, and even hints about where he feels Snyder is taking the film’s response with Justice League. 

I liked it a lot. I love Zack. He is probably the biggest fan of DC Comics. He has an incredible passion in a very specific way, a specific take on it. He’s a smart guy, and I think he heard everybody, he heard them loud and clear, and you grow and you evolve. I thought it was a stunning movie, absolutely stunning. I wish I could get some of those shots in the can. The guy’s an amazing visualist.

Now granted, this is a director who is working within the same studio and DC Extended Universe as his counterpart, but it’s always nice to hear fellow filmmakers having each other’s backs. And I think that even the harshest critics of the film should agree with Ayer’s sentiments that Snyder is a gifted visual filmmaker.

Suicide Squad hits theaters this Friday, August 5.

Source: JoBlo

Noah Villaverde

Noah Villaverde

Cinema lover. Saxophone player. Coffee consumer. Chronic complainer. Oh, I also write. #TeamHeroic

  • Luisbats

    well respected, i like both directors

  • Radar Technician Matt

    Love Ayer’s work but SS will get some unnecessary hate.
    I just love how some IMDB users already bash Suicide Squad and give it a score of 1 out 10. It’s even more funny how they already call out its plot holes.

    • PunchInTheFace

      I thoroughly despised BvS, but I’m more than happy to give Suicide Squad a chance. This is the first DCEU movie NOT under Snyder’s thumb, so it might actually be good.

    • DoYouFeelInCharge?

      Unfortunately the first Avengers movie brought a lot of bandwagon jumpers to the fan community and now we have to suffer through these tiresome fanboy wars spurred on by people who probably don’t even read comics. At the end of the day though, good films succeed and bad films fail.

      • Marquis de Sade

        Yes, and some fail with a deafening thud, like bvs. Bwahahaha!

    • Zarathos No Daimaōh

      I’m more annoyed by people insisting into making it a DC vs Marvel critics fest . I was not enthralled with BvS , as it carried some of the issues i already had with MoS from the same director , plus a few new ones …

      But i’ve only been positive about Suicide Squad , despite a few choices i did not want or anticipate within the cast . And i actually liked what the trailers for Wonder Woman and Justice League teased thus far .

      Hardly everyone is in some anti dcu conspiracy , some are trolls yeah , some are just big fans that want better and/or closer to the properties , and some just can be comics neophytes ,or even not be into them at all , and still feel iffy about stuff they seen

      • SAMURAI36

        The problem with this statement, is that there is no such thing as “closer to the properties”. Not even Marvel presents a completely comics-faithful cinematic experience. If that was the case, then BVS not being “closer” quickly becomes faulty logic, especially since it was extremely faithful.

        I think what you might be meaning, is that it doesn’t resemble the most “popular” versions that you (the mainstream audience?) might be most familiar with.

        That being the case, DC never once promised us anything of the sort. In fact, they’d told us several times from the inception of the film, the kind of film that we would be getting. Almost to the letter. I say almost, because it’s notwithstanding the theatrical cut, mind you.

        • Zarathos No Daimaōh

          Actually the strength for some of those marvel properties , is that despite the obvious changes in movies , and even some huge and outlandish and as big than in the fox and dc stuff … The key characters and concept are recognizeable not just in look but at least in spirit . That’s the kind i mean by closer to properties (either comics or tv)

          • SAMURAI36

            I know what you meant. I’m saying that that’s not accurate. At least not for the most part. Deadpool is the only example that proves your point. The rest, especially the MCU, don’t.

  • PunchInTheFace

    Snyder is a good visual director, but so is Michael Bay. What Zack has a problem with is getting deep and emotional output from his actors. The one Snyder movie I did like was “Watchmen”. But even then, outside of Rorschach and The Comedian, I felt a lot of the acting was wooden and stilted. “Batman v Superman” had the same problem. Cavill was awful (but forgiven considering what he had to work with) and Eisenberg’s take was just strange. Even Affleck at times seemed like he didn’t know what to do emotionally with the script. I think if “Justice League” stays clear of deep themes and tries not to get too far into any sort of emotional impact, and just sticks with action, then the movie will do okay under Snyder. But if they try to layer any deep character moments into it, Zack’s directing will cause the same issues as BvS and all the other movies he’s directed.

    • Joey Wabi-Sabi

      “I think if Justice League stays clear of deep themes and tries not to get too far into any sort of emotional impact, and just sticks with action, then the movie will do okay….”

      You just gave the exact recipe for how to make a very BAD movie. No deep themes? No emotional impact? No deep character moments? Action ONLY?……WOW. That sounds really really boring. It sounds like you’re describing the worst movie ever made. NO Director in all of movie-making history would ever listen to that nonsense advice you just gave. You must have the worst taste in movies ever. I don’t mean to insult you, I’m just really really shocked that you think that would make a good film! I don’t think anyone is going to agree with you on that one.

      • Radar Technician Matt

        He pretty much described Age of Extinction.

      • Jake Bucsko

        I think what he meant is that Snyder should stay away from those things because he’s terrible at them.

        • PunchInTheFace

          That’s precisely what I meant. I didn’t say it was ideal for WB to make a movie with no soul to it. But with Snyder at the helm, they almost have no choice.

          • Joey Wabi-Sabi

            I know exactly what you meant when I first read that nonsense statement. Repeating it a 2nd time doesn’t help prove your point. So now you are agreeing with me and admitting that an action-only movie with no character depth and no deep themes would NOT make a good movie. And yet somehow you’re OK with them doing this to Justice League? You’re saying that making a guaranteed BAD movie would be better than Snyder trying to make a good movie? Wow. I am dumbfounded. That is some really messed up logic there. Are you reading what you’re typing before you hit the post button?? It doesn’t look like it. In trying to attack Zack Snyder, you exposed the fact that you don’t know what makes a great movie. And then you tried to backtrack your statement by agreeing with me and saying “yeah I know that would be bad, but it’s better than Snyder trying to make something good”. Haha what an illogical JOKE you are.
            You must’ve thought there were no smart people reading the comments section, and you could get away with making statements that make no sense whatsoever, just so you can throw a jab at Zack Snyder. Nope, sorry. You came to the wrong site buddy. As you can see from all the replies above, there are plenty of people here who will not let you get away with making incoherent arguments. You will need to try a lot harder next time if you want to keep up with this crowd.

          • PunchInTheFace

            I’m thinking this crowd is rather unhinged. I see why my friends at CBM and SHH consider this place a joke. I’ll leave you to your circle jerk.

      • PunchInTheFace

        My point went entirely over your head. Of course I don’t find action-only movies good. What I said was Snyder himself is flawed at directing deep character and emotion, and every time he tries he screws it up. Under a director capable of actually directing his actors and bringing out their talent, I would agree with you. But Warners stupidly continues to hitch its wagon to Snyder. So if they don’t want another BvS style mess, they need to keep it simple. The best case scenario would have been for them to find a capable director so that they COULD have deeper themes and emotional, dramatic scenes. Even Ayer, in his praise of Snyder, seems to only praise his visual acumen.

        • SAMURAI36

          My point went entirely over your head.

          Actually, I think your “point” went over your own head. Or, you’re just not saying anything of substance here. Take your pick. Either way, nobody is co-signing what you’re saying here, so that’s usually a clear indicator that the problem lies with you, not with us.

          Of course I don’t find action-only movies good. What I said was Snyder himself is flawed at directing deep character and emotion, and every time he tries he screws it up.

          Actually, that’s not the statement you made, that we are addressing, which was:

          I think if “Justice League” stays clear of deep themes and tries not to get too far into any sort of emotional impact, and just sticks with action, then the movie will do okay under Snyder.

          Which is a ridiculous statement. There’s no “point” to be made with this. It’s just silly.

          Under a director capable of actually directing his actors and bringing out their talent, I would agree with you. But Warners stupidly continues to hitch its wagon to Snyder. So if they don’t want another BvS style mess, they need to keep it simple. The best case scenario would have been for them to find a capable director so that they COULD have deeper themes and emotional, dramatic scenes. Even Ayer, in his praise of Snyder, seems to only praise his visual acumen.

          This set of statements is predicated on the notion that anyone here agrees with it, and clearly no one does. The proof of this, lies in the Ultimate Cut, which was Snyder’s original film, and is getting lots of praise.

          More over, the Theatrical Cut (the version you are complaining about) was not Snyder’s fault, it was WB’s.

          • PunchInTheFace

            I don’t really care if anyone on this forum agrees with me. Considering what many fans thought of BvS, the critics thought of BvS, and it’s underwhelming box office take, I’m obviously confident I’m not in the minority.

            The Ultimate Cut is getting praise from BvS fans who were already fans of the theatrical cut or who are DC fans in general. General audiences, for the most part, have abandoned BvS altogether.

            People here are free to disagree with me all they like. But all I here is “I disagree” and no one has yet demonstrate by example or explanation how Snyder is capable of being anything other than a visual director. His ability to direct actors themselves is atrocious, as demonstrated by his body of work.

            I have confidence in Suicide Squad because I think Ayer is capable of more than just make everything pretty. Justice League, I fear, will be more of the BvS same.

          • JMMagwood

            I’m glad you wrote that first line, because you’re right! No one agrees with you, or cares what you think. The film made $872 million and many liked or loved it. You didn’t. Wah. Movies are subjective like all art. No argument you make will make any difference to those of us who liked it. Same goes to the writer of the article. Go cry in someone else’s soup.

          • PunchInTheFace

            It’s actually you guys who are crying. I posted a viewpoint that he’s a capable visual director but a lousy dramatic one. Suddenly I have a bunch of posters with mascara running down their faces that I’m being mean to Zack Snyder. Is your name Chris Crocker?

            If I ruined your day, I couldn’t care less. That’s my opinion. It stays where it is. I know plenty outside of this romper room who agree with me.

            When Zack Snyder ever actually earns critical acclaim or awards for his directing outside of just visual artistry, we’ll revisit this conversation. Thus far, I doubt we’ll ever see that happen.

          • SAMURAI36

            Sounds like someone got an ouchy. Poor booba.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Okay. Well, if everyone is going to start responding like children now, I’ll leave you be.

          • SAMURAI36

            Buh-bye now.

          • JMMagwood

            So long!

          • Marquis de Sade

            I applaud you, good sir. Great comments!

          • Joey Wabi-Sabi

            What was so “great” about any of his comments? You mean the part where he said he prefers movies that “stay clear of deep themes and tries not to get too far into any sort of emotional impact, and just sticks with action”?
            You agree with that nonsense? Figures! You’re the guy who thinks Iron Man 2 & 3, Thor 2, and Age of Ultron were the greatest movies ever made in the last 30 years. Even when die-hard Marvel fans are saying “NOOO those movies were downright horrible”.
            Looks like you finally found a friend who has the same bad taste in movies as you!

          • Marquis de Sade

            Ohhh WOBBY-SOBBY, why must you prattle on while constantly championing that sinking ship, dceu?
            …and why misrepresent me by stating that I hold two of the weakest Marvel efforts in such high esteem? Thor: The Dark World and Ironman 2 are two of my least favorite films in their (otherwise) magnificent oovre. Now shouldn’t you be getting ready for bedtime?

          • JMMagwood

            Lol Good post, sir. The trolls hate to have the lights shined on them.

          • JMMagwood

            Yeah, he’s another useless clown with no constructive criticism. Oh well.

          • JMMagwood

            As many bad films that have won critical acclaim and awards, that’s your criteria? You’re really a waste of time. Stand by your opinions boy. If you need anything or anyone else to back them up, you’re just another follower, which you obviously are. You’re full of useless blather.

          • Speaking of useless… You should take a look in the mirror.

          • JMMagwood

            You’ve never posted a worthy comment, so you’re easy enough to ignore, troll.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Without data, all one has is an opinion. My data is that Snyder is not regarded nor acclaimed for his direction other than visual style. My opinion agrees. Your opinion differs. Fine. What data do you have to support your opinion?

            It’s really that simple.

          • This site’s comments section have several trolls and all-around jerky people who react insanely when people criticize bad movies that the trolls happen to love. You’re better off blocking them when they prove themselves unreasonable. Both of the people you’re arguing with are also racist, so they get bonus jerk points.

          • JMMagwood

            You should be banned for calling minorities racist, you fool! MODERATORS take notice! We’re being attacked for having an opinion about a movie!!!

          • Marquis de Sade

            Uhhh, I think you should re-think that, Maggie…After all, aren’t you and Sammy-rai guilty of the same offense in y’all’s treatment of PUNCH IN THE FACE for voicing his/her opinion, only to be attacked on all sides for expressin’ a counter (yet constructive) argument?
            Be concern when I (MARQUIS DE SADE) marvel’s at your lack of maturity. LOL!

          • JMMagwood

            But Saddie, keep in mind that idiot is going around calling people racist. Something, for me, that goes too far. Insults are one thing, but that? Surely you’re not defending that?

          • JMMagwood

            It wasn’t the same old thing here. He’s calling people racist over that Rocketeer discussion. I’ve never called for anyone to be banned before, until that awful person. Movie fights are one thing, but he’s over the line.

          • Marquis de Sade

            Well in regards to the The Rocketeer discussion, your’s and a few others take (in all honesty) had a sexist and a slight racist tone to it in the sense that y’all automatically placed women, and specifically black women in a very limited box.
            As I argued, The Rocketeer is a FANTASY, and like how DC loves to create alternate realities, The Rocketeer too should be placed in the same context. There should be no place to limit any gender or race when it comes to one(s) imagination.

          • JMMagwood

            If you read my final comment seriously, I don’t see how you got racist from my view. I’m giving you credit for being better than some of these obvious trolls that are floating around. I understand that it’s FANTASY, but do you understand how I, and many black Americans feel about that period? I know what Disney will do with it, and I feel it’s not respectful concerning what black Americans struggled with in those days. Look at the “Lone Ranger.” Native Americans weren’t enamored of that nonsense. I said more than once, part of my problem is the time period they’re talking about using. It’s disrespectful and a sign they’re not taking any of the material serious, or the time period. It feels like a pandering money grab, to me.

          • Marquis de Sade

            “and if they actually make this about a black woman during WW2, I’ll never see it. That’s pandering and political correctness at a level that just shouldn’t be tolerated, at least not in America, anyway.”

            Maybe you should’ve word it better, because on the outside lookin’ in, the way you phrased this comes off as “BLACK WOMEN NOT ONLY CAN’T FLY DURING THAT TIME, BUT THE VERY THOUGHT OF A BLACK WOMAN STRAPPING ON S JET PACK AND PLAYING THE ROCKETEER IS EQUALLY OFFENSIVE AND UNREALISTIC.”

          • JMMagwood

            You can use all the caps you want, Saddie. I stand by the statement. It’s disrespectful and to some degree dishonest, especially when considering how Disney would handle such a concept. I’m sorry that you’re so lost in pc delirium that you apparently are only somewhat objective when it comes to DC projects.

          • Marquis de Sade

            Not everything’s about the struggle…I think in regards to this proposed Rocketeer sequel, it would be nice for young black girls and women to see their image in a super heroic light in a fantasy action flick.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Thanks man. Apparently I ruined a few childhoods here from the fevered pitch of reactions. LOL. Entertaining, but I have too busy a day to continue.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Jesus Christ. Both Mags and Samurai act like I shot their boyfriend or something. If this is the type of audience Heroic Hollywood attracts, I’m glad I’m not a regular here.

          • You should be less hostile. And also comment less.

          • SAMURAI36

            I don’t really care if anyone on this forum agrees with me.

            Of course you do. Which is why you continue to respond. Otherwise, it’s the ultimate arrogance, to litter one’s thoughts around like so much flotsam.

            Considering what many fans thought of BvS, the critics thought of BvS, and it’s underwhelming box office take, I’m obviously confident I’m not in the minority.

            Ah, so it’s the “million flies” argument. And the tired one at that. That’ll always help prove your point…

            Never mind the fact, that the only POV here you seem concerned with, is your own. Otherwise, you’d have heard me when I mention the fact that the film the “critics” (as if their opinion means anything–other than to you, that is) reviewed, was the THEATRICAL CUT. The Ultimate Cut has been getting great reviews.

            The Ultimate Cut is getting praise from BvS fans who were already fans of the theatrical cut or who are DC fans in general. General audiences, for the most part, have abandoned BvS altogether.

            You’re LYING. You already had very little credibility here, and now you have none.

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2016/06/28/review-batman-v-superman-ultimate-edition-expands-story-and-wins-praise/#35cd2c3a6225

            http://www.slantmagazine.com/dvd/review/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-ultimate-edition

            http://www.slashfilm.com/batman-v-superman-ultimate-edition-reviews/

            And that’s not even counting the Amazon reviews (4 stars and above). People like you just can’t seem to accept that more people liked/loved BVS, than disliked it.

            Besides, whatever you think you’re using as “logic” is horrendously flawed; if they didn’t like the film at first, but the UC made them fans of the film, then wouldn’t that make them BVS fans?

            Never mind the fact that reducing people to like the film as “BVS fans” only makes you sound more biased.

            People here are free to disagree with me all they like.

            Yeah, you said that already.

            But all I here is “I disagree” and no one has yet demonstrate by example or explanation how Snyder is capable of being anything other than a visual director. His ability to direct actors themselves is atrocious, as demonstrated by his body of work.

            1) Nobody here (or anyewhere else, for that matter) owes you any type of explanation for how we feel.

            2) Even if we did, what difference would it make? Are you gonna somehow change your opinion on BVS and Snyder? I highly doubt it.

            3) To prove the first 2 points, I’ve already countered your statements in that regard. Can’t wait to see what “logic” you utilize to rebut.

            I have confidence in Suicide Squad because I think Ayer is capable of more than just make everything pretty. Justice League, I fear, will be more of the BvS same.

            Good for you. I pretty much like both, but for different reasons. They are both great directors, albeit different, and who are handling wildly differing properties.

          • PunchInTheFace

            I’m here because I’m having fun arguing with you while I wait for some rather large files to finish uploading to Dropbox.

            I’m also not posting entire novels to defend my point, so obviously you have some sort of strange emotional investment in Snyder that may or may not be healthy.

            Like I said to Magwood, when Zack Snyder whens critical acclaim and awards for anything other than visual direction, we’ll revisit this conversation. So far he hasn’t.

          • SAMURAI36

            I’m also not posting entire novels to defend my point, so obviously you have some sort of strange emotional investment in Snyder that may or may not be healthy.

            Aww, too many words for you to comprehend? No wonder you didn’t like BVS.

            Like I said to Magwood, when Zack Snyder whens critical acclaim and awards for anything other than visual direction, we’ll revisit this conversation. So far he hasn’t.

            “We” don’t have to revisit anything. The rest of us are quite content discussing BVS, “entire novels” and all.

            You’re more than welcome to go back to where ever you came from, hating on Snyder and BVS, while using as few words as possible.

          • PunchInTheFace

            RE: “Aww, too many words for you to comprehend? No wonder you didn’t like BVS.”

            This is why BvS fans are kind of looked at as unhinged. There was nothing intellectually or thematically novel or genius about BvS. It was a popcorn flick. And a bad one at that. That some BvS fans regard the film as too “high-minded” for the rest of us rubes to understand is comical. Akin to explaining how the Twinkie is culinary perfection.

            One more time, wake me up when Snyder receives ANY acclaim for his work other than his visual direction. I haven’t seen it. Even Ayer qualified his comments on how he appreciates his “visual” work.

          • 12stepCornelius

            Actually, you’re matter of factly wrong about only BvS supporters of the TC being supporters of the Ultimate Edition. Case in point, Jon Schnepp of Collider who thought the TC was garbage, but really liked the UE. There are many more who felt the same as him. Sorry, you’re just wrong on that one.

          • Naa, most reviews of the UE do in fact suggest that people who disliked the theatrical cut will not like the director’s cut. There is no hive mind, so some reviewers feel differently. Best you make peace with the consensus though.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Nah, I’m not. You have a couple cases but most reviewers still find BvS a pile of crap covered in crap. Thanks for playing.

      • xxjinzaxx

        You are right. That commenter’s description reminds me of Last Action Hero. And some of Jean Claude Van Damme films post-Kickboxer.

      • SAMURAI36

        Yeah, that was utter nonsense.

    • Radar Technician Matt

      Really? Bay is nothing compared to Snyder. Every frame of Snyder’s visual work is like a painting. Bay has the same freaking kind of explosions in every movie and nothing visually good about it.
      And completely disagree with the rest.

      • PunchInTheFace

        You’re free to. I don’t care. I stand by what I said. Relay to me any scene from any Snyder movie that had any emotional impact. The best I can come up with is Rorschach’s death and The Comedian talking to Moloch. That’s about it. Zach sucks at subtlety and human drama. Just like Bay.

        • SAMURAI36

          Relay to me any scene from any Snyder movie that had any emotional impact.

          Sure:

          MOS:

          “I WILL FIND HIM!!”

          “HOW DARE YOU THREATEN MY MOTHER!!”

          “That is what you have taken from me…”

          And of course, the snapped neck.

          BVS:

          The entire opening, “911” style scene

          The “gunshot” scene

          The Mountain scene

          “Nobody stays good in this world”

          Batman saving the women

          “You are my world”

          The Superman burial scene (Metropolis and Smallville)

          Zach sucks at subtlety and human drama. Just like Bay.

          That’s your opinion, and of course you’re welcome to it.

          Just as “HAIL SNYDRA” is my opinion on the subject.

          And as for “unnecessary slow motion”, that’s a staple of Snyder’s work. Just like Bay.

          I can’t recall a single slo-mo scene in MOS, and I can only think of one in BVS. It’s statements like this that furtherly make it difficult (impossible, at this point) to take you seriously.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Well then, you must have had amnesia forgetting about the numerous slo-mo scenes in 300 and Watchmen.

            Nothing you listed is what I would consider talented directing. Most of it was pretty ham-fisted. Jonathan Kent’s death in MOS, for example, instead of being an emotional moment, was an eye-roller and almost comedic.

            Obviously you’re a fan of Snyder. Good for you. I apparently touched a nerve as well. But seriously– Zack Snyder and “Deep, emotional, thought-provoking cinema” do not go together in the minds of people other than BvS fans.

          • SAMURAI36

            Well then, you must have had amnesia forgetting about the numerous slo-mo scenes in 300 and Watchmen.

            Yes, I did forget about those. Mostly because we were talking about BVS and MOS. Or, at least, I was.

            Nothing you listed is what I would consider talented directing. Most of it was pretty ham-fisted. Jonathan Kent’s death in MOS, for example, instead of being an emotional moment, was an eye-roller and almost comedic.

            Then what was the point of asking, if you’d already known that whatever answer you got, you would disagree with?

            And you wonder why you’re being disregarded here, in the way that you are right now.

            Obviously you’re a fan of Snyder. Good for you. I apparently touched a nerve as well. But seriously– Zack Snyder and “Deep, emotional, thought-provoking cinema” do not go together in the minds of people other than BvS fans.

            You’ve done nothing of the sort. In fact, you’re really overestimating yourself, by even implying that.

            I’m over here enjoying one of the most amazing superhero films ever made. What are you over there doing? Besides complaining?

          • JMMagwood

            Exactly! I’m not on boards where people like “The Force Awakens” and dumping on it because someone likes it, while I thought it was a piece of junk. I’m so tired of these haters. I have no patience to act like most of them are making compelling arguements. This glob is here trying to sound like he’s a film “intellectual” while he’s just another hater who didn’t like “BvS” for whatever reasons… Fine, but get a life, haters

          • SAMURAI36

            So true. (and yeah, TFA really was a buncha nonsense).

          • PunchInTheFace

            TFA was a piece of trash. So was BvS. Sorry to hurt your world view.

          • PunchInTheFace

            I’m here working. Which was what I was doing taking a break commenting on Snyder. Snyder seems to be a passion of yours. Good for you. Get your lips wet for him. But keep BvS on replay so you can circle jerk yourself to death. My God, the weirdos on this site.

          • SAMURAI36

            I pride myself in always giving people fair warnings before I block them, ever since Disqus created that feature recently.
            Consider this yours.

          • PunchInTheFace

            Yeah. Go eff yourself. Who cares. Another virgin neckbeard blocking me. AHMAGERD! Come on, neckbeard, I’m in a bad mood today. Tell me about your man-love for Snyder…

          • SAMURAI36

            D&mn, one of your last posts got thru before I got finish blocking you.

            The fact that you said:

            Who cares. Another virgin neckbeard blocking me. AHMAGERD!

            You care, obviously. And the fact that you said “ANOTHER” says that this is not the first time, which says a lot about you.
            Oh, & WTF is a “neckbeard”??? I don’t have a beard. Certainly not one that’s on my neck. But whatever helps you sleep at night, in lieu of your meds.

          • JMMagwood

            I just ignore them. This guy’s clear troll. Probably someone that’s shown up before under another name and got banned or something. Don’t waste your time. He’s brought nothing of value.

          • JMMagwood

            Good post. Crushed the clown.

      • xxjinzaxx

        And the obligatory Slo-Mo Megan Fox sequence. Is Bay implying she’s the next Bionic Woman with that effect?

    • SAMURAI36

      Couldn’t disagree more with what you said. This makes the second time.

      • PunchInTheFace

        A second time is what you’ve never had with a woman, so sure. We’ll go with that.

      • PunchInTheFace

        Neckbeard was all chatty and feeling great about himself a few minutes ago. NECKBEEEAAAARD!!!! Wanna play?! Seriously. I’m in a bad mood. Let’s do this. Helllllooooooo?

  • w0undedmagic

    Crazy world we live in where BvS gets called a box office “disappointment” for not making a BILLION dollars, yet the same people are still trying to spin Ghostbusters as a success. Lol oh well, the film worked for me, and SS looks fantastic. Can’t wait for Thursday night!

    • flavortang

      Ghostbusters performed exactly how I and many others thought it would. The original is a classic that will be remembered for many more decades to come. The reboot will largely be forgotten a month after its release.

      • w0undedmagic

        Haha agreed, but online “journalists” and Twitter would have you believe differently. It should be interesting to see if Sony’s ego burps out a sequel.

        • flavortang

          Hopefully they’ll release GB2 on the same weekend as Fant4stic 2.

          • w0undedmagic

            It would be foolish for those movies to open up against Independence Day III that weekend.

      • PunchInTheFace

        People will remember it when they sift through the $3 Blu-Ray/DVD bin.

        • w0undedmagic

          …but then a Police Academy 4-pack catches their eye, and presents itself as the obvious better deal.

      • SAMURAI36

        I personally think GB as a whole is largely overrated. That said, the original is only a “classic”, because there was nothing else like it out at the time.

        If the recent remake were the one that came out back then, I bet most people would have been calling that a “classic” as well.

    • xxjinzaxx

      Confirmation followed by information biases is at play here. One item can be cleared of all imperfections while another is berated for the exact same thing. Our world has turned binary; it’s become a Tron nightmare.

      • SAMURAI36

        It’s about to get worse, if Trump gets in office.

        • xxjinzaxx

          Amen to that, buddy.

        • JMMagwood

          Do you seriously believe Clinton is a solution to the country’s ills? Neither one is an attractive choice at all, but she’s the worst choice we could have. I’m staying home this time.

          • SAMURAI36

            No, I don’t. I don’t like Lucifer or Satan, and I’m not voting for either as well.

          • Math

            I’m not American so maybe it’s not my place to comment on this, but seems to me that staying home and not voting is exactly what got these two bozos where they are. By not voting, you are empowering them by basically saying “Fine. Do what you want. I don’t care.” But hey, it’s not my country. I do find it very sad (and very worrying) to see what’s going on with my neighbors in the south. Best of luck with all that.

          • JMMagwood

            Feel free to comment. It’s a good question. I will go to vote, but at this point, not for President. I will vote in the down ballot elections. I just have never been faced with two such terrible choices at the top. I’ll continue to observe until the very last day , and see if I can find it in me to cast of vote for President. Perhaps someone outside the two major parties. Who knows?

          • JMMagwood

            I should also say that those clowns got where they are because they both reaped a fair number of voters during the primaries. People did vote on both sides, and this is what we got. Not great, but a lot things have led to this sorry state of affairs. America will survive this period though, I’m still confident in the Union.

          • Math

            I’m not American so maybe it’s not my place to comment on this, but seems to me that staying home and not voting is exactly what got these two bozos where they are. By not voting, you are empowering them by basically saying “Fine. Do what you want. I don’t care.” But hey, it’s not my country. I do find it very sad (and very worrying) to see what’s going on with my neighbors in the south. Best of luck with all that.

          • w0undedmagic

            You know, I almost typed up a reason why Shillary is the “lesser of two evils”, but then I remembered when someone farts in public, you shouldn’t take credit for it. We’re F’d!

          • JMMagwood

            I’m on the other side of it, I guess. Clinton’s a corrupt, pretty much criminal entity, who’s used elected office to line her family’s pockets, and worse than Trump, but he’s not fit for the office, either. He’s a thin skinned narcissist, who comes off like a nut. I do think we’ll survive this, but there might be pain. Maybe it will be good for us.

            Hey, we’ve survived Obama, and Bush before him, so we’ve already been through 16 less than ideal presidential years.

          • w0undedmagic

            To bring it back to movies: Mike Judge’s Idiocracy continues to become more poignant and relevant than ever.

          • JMMagwood

            I love that movie! The only thing is: I’m still hopeful. I do believe future generations will be better than a lot of what we’re currently dealing with, and I’ll just leave it at that.

          • w0undedmagic

            I can almost share your optimism:) I do think our country is changing rapidly, and that there is still a chance for that to be a good thing.

    • rogbngp

      I agree with everything Ayers says. But since the subject is addressing the criticisms of this controversial picture, I cannot resist giving my own views… Had the critics not savaged BvS it would easily have made a billion plus. Rotten Tomatoes brutally swiped the legs right out from under this amazing film. Fortunately it had strong pre-sales! I love the film but it has some problems, inho. Zack Snyder made his bed with some key directorial decisions and now it he has to lie in it. Something Snyder is clearly not responsible for that badly hurt the film’s box office: The theatrical release’s editing was a problem for the majority of critics and many fans, most feeling that it compromised the narrative flow severely. Something Zack imo really should have done better for this film is the infamous “Martha” scene. In hindsight it was a poor story choice that imo fairly opens the film to ridicule. However the scene can actually still work via a perfectly sensible interpretation that would be strengthened by just one very brief additional scene, literally lasting just a few seconds long and very easy to film (which unfortunately does not appear in the UE–if anyone is interested I will happily elaborate). A number of the casting choices were quite risky, which is a thing I admire on principal–and they paid off. One thing that I think may not have gone over as well as hoped both during writing and shooting is Jesse Eisenberg’s rather bizarre performance of Lex Luthor. It is for my taste shrill and at times over-the-top, but overall I still respect that Snyder went with such an offbeat and radical departure for the character (who is Lex JUNIOR, let’s not forget). And the complaints about Superman being angsty and mopey I ignore because I have faith that the character development arc for Supes must be viewed for the entire trilogy of MoS/BvS/JL. And I expect that we’ll get a satisfying resolution to that arc in JL. As for the critics’ complaint of the film trying to cram in too much material, personally I disagree. I love the richness, density, and layering of complex human psychological and mythic (archetypal) themes in BvS. I usually prefer films rich with interweaving themes, many of which are symbolic and have to be inferred, to a paint-by-the-numbers straightforward linear narrative (except when the latter is masterfully executed stylistically by a brilliant auteur director; then I’ll call it a draw). Overall this film is remarkable. Affleck and Gadot were perfect to me. The fight scenes were epic. The overall tone of the film was epic, operatic, mythic, and majestic feeling. BvS takes a sophisticated, mature, artistically serious approach to the subject matter. It is still an astonishing film to me, despite its warts. I also think that we have to remember that BvS is the connecting film between MoS and JL, and that JL resolves the trilogy saga.

      • w0undedmagic

        Curious to know your “fix” for the Martha scene? :)

        • rogbngp

          I wrote a long article for this at another site that it seems if I share the link the software here will auto-detect as spam and remove. You can Google it, though: “One Scene Missing From ‘BvS’ Ultimate Edition Might Have Redeemed The Film For Critics And Fans.” To sum it up, the film gives us material to infer that by the time the two superheroes come to blows, Superman likely has figured out Batman’s identity as Bruce Wayne. At the charity gala Clark’s super-hearing catches Bruce engaged in what would probably appear to be corporate espionage via radio communication with Alfred. Clark follows after Bruce to investigate but gets sidetracked by the Juarez Day of the Dead rescue. Also, as we see in the UE, Clark embarks on a full journalistic investigation of Batman (presumably we’re shown just a few choice moments on the bricks of Gotham that illustrate a much more extensive effort that Perry White feels is a Great White Whale obsession for Clark). And I think this is actually crucial: when Superman shows up to confront and intimidate Batman, it seems highly unlikely that it is purely coincidental what is going on at that very moment! Batman is attempting to steal a huge chunk of Kryptonite from Luthor’s henchmen! Superman would have to be tracking Batman with his super senses and know where Batman is to do this. If Kal continued to track Bruce Wayne’s conversations with his superhearing then he would overhear him with Alfred in the Batcave, and he would know that Bruce is Batman. So I think the film leaves this to be inferred. Snyder is notoriously a ‘show visually versus tell’ director. So… if Superman is onto the fact that Batman is Bruce Wayne… which again, I assert is a perfectly reasonable inference to draw… then from Clark’s extensive journalistic investigation he should know that Bruce witnessed the murder of his parents as a child. He would have read the story of their murder. And he would then know that their mothers’ share the same name, and probably be struck by that (wouldn’t you be?). At the critical “Martha moment” I see Superman as, at that point having been physically defeated and about to die, desperately using psychology to jar Bruce out of his temporary madness that has consumed him (btw, it is his Jungian Shadow that has overtaken Batman, which we see symbolized in the dream of the hideous Bat monster at his mother’s tomb), the sort of berserker rage that he is in for that fight. Kal purposefully says the name Martha basically as a Hail Mary–but also a very clever and inspired strategy–to try to jar Batman back to his senses (lest he be killed in the next second). Batman is the World’s Greatest Detective. The empathy that ‘Martha” instills in Batman about Superman short-circuits Batman back to sanity. And his super-computer-like brain then automatically resorts all the data to realize that he and Superman have both been played by Lex. The film does not verbally explain that, but leaves it for the viewer to piece together. Perhaps such an explanation should really did require some verbal exposition; but fact is there is none, so it is what it is. The one scene that I think would cement all of this together is to show Clark at his computer at the DP simply reading the article about Thomas and Martha Wayne’s murders. That would clearly establish that he knows that their mothers share the same name. So when he uses the ploy of speaking the name Martha to bring Bruce back to his senses, we can more clearly and confidently interpret it in the way I have outlined here. That scene would take literally a couple of seconds to film. If they don’t have such a scene in the can, they could film it even now during JL and add it to a future Director’s Cut. I think we could still see a Director’s Cut in addition to the UE, given that the first cut of the film was a whopping 4 hours, and Zack might want to revisit the film one more time to tweak it some more for a final definitive version.

          • rogbngp

            This admittedly requires considerable ‘reading in.’ I acknowledge that! But you can watch the film with this interpretation superimposed, and it pretty much hangs together (at least for me, overall). Without it, unfortunately the whole Martha device is… the it is just really bad writing, imo. It would be pretty silly.

          • JMMagwood

            Great discussion, people!

          • w0undedmagic

            I like it! The UE scene with Clark researching the “bat-brand” would’ve been a good place to include it.

          • rogbngp

            Yes, that would be a good spot for it. I still want a Director’s Cut from Zack that really fits all of this together better. The patient can be saved yet with a bit of skillful surgery!

          • rogbngp

            Oh, also! Most unfortunately the UE does not show us the reported scene of Clark hearing all the terrible things happening to people within the range of his superhearing that require his rescue. He cannot be everywhere at once, so he learns to screen a lot of it out. I think this was intended to set up the scene when Clark has his imagined conversation with Jonathan atop the mountain, i.e., it is about that moral dilemma. But anyway, including that scene would also provide a basis to infer that Clark could and would continue to monitor Bruce Wayne via his superhearing. And I think it safe to assume that he would.

        • rogbngp

          I wrote a long article for this at another site that it seems if I share the link the software here will auto-detect as spam and remove. You can Google it, though: “One Scene Missing From ‘BvS’ Ultimate Edition Might Have Redeemed The Film For Critics And Fans.” To sum it up, the film gives us material to infer that by the time the two superheroes come to blows, Superman likely has figured out Batman’s identity as Bruce Wayne. At the charity gala Clark’s super-hearing catches Bruce engaged in what would probably appear to be corporate espionage via radio communication with Alfred. Clark follows after Bruce to investigate but gets sidetracked by the Juarez Day of the Dead rescue. Also, as we see in the UE, Clark embarks on a full journalistic investigation of Batman (presumably we’re shown just a few choice moments on the bricks of Gotham that illustrate a much more extensive effort that Perry White feels is a Great White Whale obsession for Clark). And I think this is actually crucial: when Superman shows up to confront and intimidate Batman, it seems highly unlikely that it is purely coincidental what is going on at that very moment! Batman is attempting to steal a huge chunk of Kryptonite from Luthor’s henchmen! Superman would have to be tracking Batman with his super senses and know where Batman is to do this. If Kal continued to track Bruce Wayne’s conversations with his superhearing then he would overhear him with Alfred in the Batcave, and he would know that Bruce is Batman. So I think the film leaves this to be inferred. Snyder is notoriously a ‘show visually versus tell’ director. So… if Superman is onto the fact that Batman is Bruce Wayne… which again, I assert is a perfectly reasonable inference to draw… then from Clark’s extensive journalistic investigation he should know that Bruce witnessed the murder of his parents as a child. He would have read the story of their murder. And he would then know that their mothers’ share the same name, and probably be struck by that (wouldn’t you be?). At the critical “Martha moment” I see Superman as, at that point having been physically defeated and about to die, desperately using psychology to jar Bruce out of his temporary madness that has consumed him (btw, it is his Jungian Shadow that has overtaken Batman, which we see symbolized in the dream of the hideous Bat monster at his mother’s tomb), the sort of berserker rage that he is in for that fight. Kal purposefully says the name Martha basically as a Hail Mary–but also a very clever and inspired strategy–to try to jar Batman back to his senses (lest he be killed in the next second). Batman is the World’s Greatest Detective. The empathy that ‘Martha” instills in Batman about Superman short-circuits Batman back to sanity. And his super-computer-like brain then automatically resorts all the data to realize that he and Superman have both been played by Lex. The film does not verbally explain that, but leaves it for the viewer to piece together. Perhaps such an explanation should really did require some verbal exposition; but fact is there is none, so it is what it is. The one scene that I think would cement all of this together is to show Clark at his computer at the DP simply reading the article about Thomas and Martha Wayne’s murders. That would clearly establish that he knows that their mothers share the same name. So when he uses the ploy of speaking the name Martha to bring Bruce back to his senses, we can more clearly and confidently interpret it in the way I have outlined here. That scene would take literally a couple of seconds to film. If they don’t have such a scene in the can, they could film it even now during JL and add it to a future Director’s Cut. I think we could still see a Director’s Cut in addition to the UE, given that the first cut of the film was a whopping 4 hours, and Zack might want to revisit the film one more time to tweak it some more for a final definitive version.

        • PunchInTheFace

          Not produce BvS would have been a start.

      • PunchInTheFace

        Here’s the problem I have: People are laying blame with the WB for the editing fiasco of this movie. As far as I’m aware, EVERY director of a movie is involved in the editing of his work. Even in regards to studio interference to cut time to garner more showings and profit. And I can’t imagine that WB hadn’t laid that out as a specification pre-production. So while Zack was sitting there with the editor(s) cutting scenes and such, how did he let such key elements fall to the floor. Again, this just backs my argument that Snyder is an awful director. In more capable hands, I think BvS could have been much better.

  • flavortang

    Taking the family to see Squad next Monday. Cannot wait. I hope the reviews, which should start dropping tomorrow, paint the film in a positive light. I want the DCEU to have its first bonafide financial AND critical hit!

    • rogbngp

      Reviews on RT should start appearing literally in about 10 minutes (at noon U.S. Eastern time). Crossing my fingers too that this film is well received and a big hit. If Will Smith shines in it and has a character that sort of threads the film together narratively, then I think that will put some Will Smith fans’ in seats that otherwise aren’t particularly CBM fans.

      • rogbngp

        And… it looks like I shall not have my wish! Not looking good right out of the gate. Not to be alarmist, but a great imbalance of reviews early on is never a good sign. This may be another critical blood bath akin to BvS.

        • PunchInTheFace

          This is not good. WB has a rich treasure trove of material at their disposal involving DC properties that could net them billions. If the DCEU is 0-3 out of the gate in critical and box office reception (and let’s not forget the horrible response to Green Lantern), WB (who can be rather fickle with their franchises) may just slam the door after Justice League and Wonder Woman. People can squawk about BvS’ $872M all they want– but when investors, sponsors, and shareholders figured $1.3B, that’s a failure.

          I think WB execs need a big weekend pow-wow to figure out how to right the ship. And quick.

          • rogbngp

            It will be interesting to see if the RT critics’ relentless DC film bashing actually galvanizes the hardcore DC fan base in support–and if to some extent that sways the more casual GA viewer to ignore RT for this type of film. If the RT ~audience~ score is in the 60s or higher, and it still performs reasonably well at the box office (if not gangbusters, still respectably) like with MoS and BvS, then we have a pattern pretty clearly established for the GA to disregard RT. No, the films won’t do as well as Marvel’s. But if the DCEU tries to copy the MCU at this stage that won’t fly either, and could well be even more disastrous. Imho, what WB/DCEU needs to do is convince GA viewers that they can confidently disregard RT for their films. That is what I would try to do if I was making that call.

          • PunchInTheFace

            I think everyone needs to get out of their heads that critics are either paid off or pre-dispositioned to hate the DCEU. I don’t believe that’s the case. And it’s a tin foil hat theory that makes the DCEU’s proponents look foolish.

            wb just needs to make good DC movies. It’s that simple. Kevin Feige figured out how to do it. Hopefully Geoff Johns can do that as well. My wife freaking idolizes Wonder Woman, so that movie better be the best damn movie ever.

          • rogbngp

            Myself, I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, but rather just that there’s a template now in most critics’ heads about what the standard is now for excellence in this genre. And more broadly what the fundamental approach should be to the CBM genre, as well.

  • 12stepCornelius

    It’s all said and done. I personally loved the theatrical and ultimate editions of the film. What’s interesting though, is that most people trashing BvS are now the same people who are really excited for Justice League. They’re giving their attention/money either way. Therefore, WB wins regardless.

    • SAMURAI36

      Co-sign, 100%

    • rogbngp

      There are mitigating factors for critics of BvS, though. It’s not coming out of nowhere. Geoff Johns is providing close, hands-on supervision (and reportedly did a script rewrite). Ben Affleck has input as an executive producer (with a huge stake of his own in this film for his own standalone Batman films). And WB has very deliberately shown a ‘hey, we listened to the complaints!’ ‘course correction’ via the invitation of the press to the set early. With that and the recent trailer WB is showing that JL will take a turn in a funner direction, and will include a good dose of humor. Zack arguably indulges a bit too heavily in dark themes, and I think it’s good that this film will have a little more fun and humor to balance its dark contents.

      • PunchInTheFace

        I have no issues with dark themes if competently employed. I don’t
        think people took issue as much with the dark matter– it’s that the
        dark matter wasn’t well executed. I think “adding humor” is just a
        Band-Aid. Under a competent director, dark can work. Look at “Se7en”. Dark throughout. But it was engaging. Heck, even Nolan’s TDK trilogy worked, and it was mostly dark. You can disagree with me that BvS was not engaging, but really, can you make the argument that it had the impact of a film like “Se7en”?

        I’m getting a ton of trash talk here like I violated someone’s sister, but I would really like the DCEU to succeed. I feel Snyder is a seriously weak link. Not just from BvS, but from his entire body of work. I have hopes that after Justice League, ties will be cut and more capable directors will come in to elevate the rich material.

  • unpaidpundit

    History has shown that the criticism of an artist is almost always more valuable than that of a layman. People still read the literary criticism of fine poets like Samuel Johnson, while the criticism of the journalists of his day has been forgotten.

    • It helps that he published books and did other things to become more famous. It’s not like newspaper columns were collected into books back then. Dude had some strange opinions, but he was of his time.