The DC & Marvel Fandom Disparity

A lot is always made of the difference between DC and Marvel. Not only with respect to the comics, but more recently, with their cinematic endeavors. You will find your purists who will align on one side of the fence or the other.  You will find your cine-philes who just like the movies and don’t know much of the history. You will even find those who love all the things – though they are a rare breed.

I myself, was a cine-phile, drawn in by Iron Man in 2008, and haven’t stopped since. I morphed over the years into going back through history and reading the comics from which these stories, loosely or otherwise are based. But, now, I have turned into one of the rare that loves all the things. I have stated several times, and if you look back through some of my history on this site (here, here, here, and here), I most definitely have a bias toward Marvel, specifically those from Marvel Studios. However, I still eagerly anticipate DC movies. The Wonder Woman footage screened at SDCC looked incredible. The trailer of Justice League has me SO excited for that movie. On the Fox side of the house, I absolutely loved Deadpool, though I wish they would get their ish together like Sony did and realize that playing along with Marvel Studios might not be such a bad idea (my thoughts another time).

The thing is folks, we are living in the “Golden Age of Superhero Cinema”, can we please not mess it up for each other? If you are a DC purist, that’s fine! Marvel purist, go ahead! Like both? Enjoy yourself! Because we are living in the best time for these stories. 

Which leads me to wonder, why the divide? Why are the “two camps” so different? Why do we have the director of Suicide Squad proclaiming “F**k Marvel” at the premiere, soliciting a response from Stan Lee himself? 

Sure some of that might be playful banter between two rivals on the playing field, but why egg on the fans of the divided camps? Why are the fandoms so different?

DC Fandom United?

One key reason is history. DC has been around longer. Specifically in the cinematic arena, we have had an on-screen Superman since 1941 (animated, and also happens to be the year of Captain America’s “birth”), and 1952 with George Reeves in the TV series Adventures of Superman. Sure Marvel’s characters, specifically Captain America, had radio serials in that time, but the first to “hit the screen” was DC, and they have been a consistent presence ever since. Generationally, none have passed by without seeing some form of a DC character in the spotlight. 

I won’t detail it all, but we have the aforementioned Superman series, the Batman TV series in 1960’s and film in 1966, Superman in theaters starting in 1978 with Christopher Reeves, and Batman in theaters starting in 1989, and then the amazing Batman: The Animated Series and Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman live-action series of the 1990’s. This history has made these two characters the preeminent superheroes throughout history, as they are the ones that have been “seen” the most, regardless of whether or not you ever picked up a comic book. But with such rich history, therein lies the problem for current DC fans, or specifically DC Extended Universe (DCEU) fans. 

DC has so much history that fans of come to expect too much. Anyone remember the first look at Henry Cavill in the suit before Man of Steel, and the uproar about his “underwear wasn’t on the outside”? How about “Batffleck”? How many times are we going to have to hear complaints about the appearance of any of the Bat-suits? Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman? I seriously thought there were going to be riots within the comic book world. In my humble opinion, those choices seemed to have worked out (story issues aside, we’ll get there).   

DC has found themselves in a precarious position that so much is expected of them, because of the history that they carry. Fans become uproarious when something on screen isn’t exactly as it was on the page. They fail to recognize that sometimes, these things have to be updated, modernized, or just plain changed to fit the time. It seriously puts DC at a disadvantage because no matter what they do, they seem to never make their fans happy. See the reviews for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and, most recently, Suicide Squad. I purposefully use Rotten Tomatoes as an example here, because they have shown through time to be able to bring down a movie before it even hits the theaters. Coming out of Comic-Con, several attendees, press or otherwise, noted that some of the biggest buzz was coming from Suicide Squad. Rotten Tomatoes has angered the fans so much that a petition was created, and subsequently withdrawn at DC’s request, to shut them down. But I digress.

I pause here, because what has to be acknowledged is the meddling of Warner Bros. in the creative process. It is well known, by now, that studio executives, not the creative teams behind the stories that we want told, have dipped their hands in the creative waters and forced unnecessary changes that have led to films that were not as well received as they should have been. The sterling example of this is Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. It was supposed to be two films with a fleshed out story for both that unified and had on larger arch. WB was in such a hurry, that they said nope, make it one, squish them together, get there faster. Anyone who saw the film in theaters walked out saying they thought they had just watched two completely different movies. Then when we got to see the extended edition (read: real cut of the film), it all made so much more sense and was immeasurably a better film.

Umberto Gonzalez’s tweet summed it all up best, in response to critical reaction to Suicide Squad.

Marvel Fandom Assembled!

A legitimate argument could be made that Christopher Nolan and Batman Begins kicked off the “Golden Age of Super Hero Cinema” in 2005. DC fans, did you know that there was supposed to be an eventual cross-over between Nolan’s Batman and Superman, but Nolan refused insisting that his Batman existed in his own universe? So you can start the blame with him on the lag behind Marvel.

I acknowledge X-Men came years earlier in 2000, and Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man came in 2002. Both of those properties are Marvel, though they belonged, cinematically, to Fox and Sony respectively. But it was around Batman Begins that Marvel Studios was born, and with it came 2008’s surprise breakout hit Iron Man. I chuckle saying “surprise” now, because any film featuring Iron Man, or more specifically Robert Downey Jr., in the role, makes nothing less than $1 Billion at the box office. 

So why has Marvel “gotten it right”? Well they have and they haven’t. Since its inception, Marvel Studios has had one man at the helm, President of Marvel Studios Kevin Feige, to guide the ship. It wasn’t until recently, that it was well known that even Feige had to navigate the muddled waters of “creative committees” and other studio execs getting in the way. This “creative committee” is what gave Joss Whedon so many headaches with Avengers: Age of Ultron, forced the departure of Edgar Wright from Ant-Man, and annoyed the hell out of Jon Favreau during the production of Iron Man 2. Fortunately for Feige and Marvel Studios though, Ike Perlmutter and the Marvel “creative committee” are out of the way, thanks to the muscle of Disney’s CEO Bob Iger and President of Walt Disney Studios Alan Horn. Warner Bros. has seemingly taken similar steps by naming Geoff Johns President and Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment. 

Studio issues, and meddling aside, how has Marvel, seemingly gotten it right? A lot of this is subjective. However, as noted earlier, DC has such a long and rich history, specifically in the visual medium, that fans draw from. Marvel’s is not as robust. Sure you had Spidey Super Stories airing on PBS in the mid 1970’s, followed quickly by The Amazing Spider-Man on CBS, and what might be the most well-known, historically, The Incredible Hulk that also ran on CBS from 1977 through 1982. Beyond that, there isn’t all that much. We all remember the X-Men cartoon that ran on Fox from 1992 through 1997. I remember racing home from school to get my daily dose. One could argue this show is what gave us 2000’s X-Men. There is a history of Marvel animated programing that dates back to the 1960’s, but it never reached the popularity, or more importantly, the pop-culture zeitgeist of DC’s entries to the medium at the time. 

This history, or perceived lack thereof, has given Marvel Studios a competitive advantage. They took what should have been a weakness and turned it into a strength – with minimal frame of reference (unlike years of Superman or Batman stories told in a variety of formats) fans had a much lower expectation regarding how the characters should be represented. Marvel fans have waited so long to see their favorite characters on screen. This is with the exception of a few guest appearances on Hulk in the 70’s, we haven’t seen Hulk and Iron Man on screen together, or Hulk and Thor, or Hulk and Captain America. The Made-for-TV movies that came out in this time frame were all stand-alones that told a single heroes story, if even nodding to other characters. However, that existed so long ago that many of today’s moviegoers/fans didn’t see it or weren’t even alive at that time. But there was no Marvel Cinematic Universe. In steps Kevin Feige.

With the game-changing success of 2008’s Iron Man, Feige was able to put in to motion his plan to see “Earth’s Mightiest Heroes” on screen together, and he, and Marvel Studios haven’t slowed down since. Despite some bumps in the road, specifically the aforementioned creative committee, they have been able to do what they want, and tell the story how they want to tell them. Interestingly, what has led us to where we are now with Marvel Studios, is the fact that when they began, and still in large part to this day, they have done this without their “most popular characters”, specifically the X-Men and Fantastic Four, who belong to Fox, and Spider-Man, who at the time belonged solely to Sony. Marvel and Sony have since struck a deal, obviously, to bring the web-slinger into the MCU fold, but when Marvel Studios stood up, they only had the rights to what were, at the time, considered second and third tier characters. This was the result of Marvel staving off bankruptcy in the 1990’s by selling off the film rights to their characters to any studio that would buy them. 

That is why 2011’s Captain America: The First Avenger was a joint Paramount/Marvel Studios production. Same goes for 2011’s Thor. When Disney bought Marvel in 2009, Disney and Marvel Studios went to work to “buy back” intellectual properties that had been sold off a decade and a half prior. But this perceived handicap (not having their “most popular” characters) is why we have what we have today. It’s why we got Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014. It is why we are less than three months away from Doctor Strange. It is why we are getting Black Panther and Captain Marvel in the not so distant future.

The unified entity that is Marvel Studios has allowed this to happen, and created a cohesive narrative that has encapsulated audiences. Think I’m wrong? Ant-Man still made half a billion dollars at the global box office without breaking a sweat. There is so much good-will, and trust that Marvel Studios has cultivated over the years that liberties are given to them that are not given to DC. Sure there were some grumblings about Tony Stark creating Ultron, and not Hank Pym. Some will raise the point that there aren’t any “real” stakes in Marvel Studios films, and a legitimate argument could be made for that statement. There are even misgivings about the lack of strength and development of Marvel’s villains – although I think there is a reason, narratively, for this and he is big, purple, and doesn’t like to stand up (if you attended SDCC and the Hall H panel you’ll get that, if not, hopefully they release the short film on what Thor was doing during Captain America: Civil War). Speaking of, there were massive changes made to the narrative of Civil War; but the fans still came out to the tune of $1.15 billion world-wide, and by and large it was beloved by fans and critics alike. 

Marvel fans are just so happy to see the characters they love on screen, that they accept the creative changes. They accept that Captain America won’t wear “pirate boots” and a fish-scale like upper uniform and protruding wings on the helmet (though an homage to this uniform was paid when Captain America was on his USO tour in The First Avenger). I can detail many more changes to the comic origins, but the point is, Marvel Studios has developed the credibility and the trust to tell the stories the way they want to tell them. In interviews, Kevin Feige will straight up tell you that they change things sometimes, but they do it to fit the story, and that it will all make sense. The fans, while some purists will still grumble, accept that and can’t wait to see what’s in store.

Divided We Fall

We need to stop this hate between DC and Marvel (above image is all in good fun).

I realize I used more words with Marvel – but the fact is (and my personal bias acknowledged, but hey, at least I acknowledge it) Marvel Studios has a much stronger footing right now despite DC’s long and rich history, though I have a feeling DC is about to “right the ship” with Geoff Johns, and I couldn’t be happier about it. Marvel currently “holds the belt” for brand and narrative synergy. However, after years of false starts and stumbles, mostly at the Executive level, DC is starting to get it together, and that really excites me, both as a fan of the genre, and as someone who really wants to see what DC has in store. The two studios, and us as fans, can make each other better as long as we stop tearing one another apart.

DC has the richer history. Marvel has the greater trust. This is not to say that DC has to follow Marvel’s proven formula to be successful. In fact I argue going a different route differentiates the two and makes it exciting. But there are obviously things DC (or more so WB) can take away from Marvel’s blueprint. Geoff Johns is a massive step in that direction, and gives me the feeling that everything will be ok, and great things are to come from DC! (Update: As I was drafting this piece, Umberto Gonzalez broke the massive scoop that a follow-up to Man of Steel is in active development at WB – hope and a positive sign of Geoff Johns’ new creative influence over DC!)

Finally, I appeal to all of the fans out there, and to borrow from Doctor Strange’s trailer, “Open Your Mind”. Accept that some things will be the same, and some things will be different. Changes will be made, origins altered. The characters you grew up loving might not look the same on screen as they did on the page. 

But folks, we are living in the “Golden Age” right now for movies some of us have waited our entire lives to actually see on the big screen in all their glory? Why can’t we just get out of each other’s way and enjoy this ride? San Diego Comic-Con has become an annual pop-culture pilgrimage, and not just comic books because of the time we are in. There is so much garbage in the world today, that it is great that every few months we can turn that off, go into the theaters, and see costumed heroes give us a win for a change. 

My plea to everyone, let it all play out. Give it time. Let the studios tell their stories. Show up, and enjoy this. Enjoy the time we are living in. Let’s just be thankful for what we are getting, because it’s awesome and unlike anything before. My greatest fear is that if we don’t, the constantly bandied about “superhero fatigue” will set in much quicker than any of us want, and we, the fans, will have ruined it, and we won’t have just the studios to blame.

Please, I beg of you all, let’s not ruin it for each other.

Heroic Staff

Heroic Staff

Heroic Special Activities Division Agent Trainee Program